Topics

New digital mode PS-18 (HF pager) from DXsoft and Radial, or we invented APRS again :-)


Sergei Podstrigailo
 

Hello all,

four year ago Eugeny UA3AHM wrote me e-mail and suggest to create software for robust short-messaging exchange
on HF bands.

When we did it we found, that it is looks very like as APRS ,
so we wrote HF Pager -> APRS gate also.

https://www.facebook.com/dxsoft/posts/3912579878815224

https://nvis.club/en/hf-proxys/hfpager/android

http://dxsoft.com/en/products/hfpager



--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com


Andrew OBrien
 

Thanks for the info , I will check it out

Andy K3uk

On May 31, 2020, at 5:31 PM, Sergei Podstrigailo <amx2@...> wrote:

Hello all,

four year ago Eugeny UA3AHM wrote me e-mail and suggest to create software for robust short-messaging exchange
on HF bands.

When we did it we found, that it is looks very like as APRS ,
so we wrote HF Pager -> APRS gate also.

https://www.facebook.com/dxsoft/posts/3912579878815224

https://nvis.club/en/hf-proxys/hfpager/android

http://dxsoft.com/en/products/hfpager



--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com




Chiefsfan2
 

Interesting, is there anyone in the US using it?

On May 31, 2020, 19:15 -0500, Andrew OBrien <k3ukandy@...>, wrote:
Thanks for the info , I will check it out

Andy K3uk


On May 31, 2020, at 5:31 PM, Sergei Podstrigailo <amx2@...> wrote:

Hello all,

four year ago Eugeny UA3AHM wrote me e-mail and suggest to create software for robust short-messaging exchange
on HF bands.

When we did it we found, that it is looks very like as APRS ,
so we wrote HF Pager -> APRS gate also.

https://www.facebook.com/dxsoft/posts/3912579878815224

https://nvis.club/en/hf-proxys/hfpager/android

http://dxsoft.com/en/products/hfpager



--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com








Sholto Fisher
 

I downloaded it and paid for the reasonable licence. Not tried it out yet but plan to soon. Unfortunately I only have 40m here.

Interestingly it gives you a numeric 'call sign' when you activate it. I'm not sure how this works for id purposes though.

Sholto
K7TMG


From: main@digitalradio.groups.io <main@digitalradio.groups.io> on behalf of Chiefsfan2 <chiefsfan2@...>
Sent: Monday, June 1, 2020 3:24:59 PM
To: main@digitalradio.groups.io <main@digitalradio.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [digital-mode-radio] New digital mode PS-18 (HF pager) from DXsoft and Radial, or we invented APRS again :-)
 
Interesting, is there anyone in the US using it?
On May 31, 2020, 19:15 -0500, Andrew OBrien <k3ukandy@...>, wrote:
Thanks for the info , I will check it out

Andy K3uk


On May 31, 2020, at 5:31 PM, Sergei Podstrigailo <amx2@...> wrote:

Hello all,

four year ago Eugeny UA3AHM wrote me e-mail and suggest to create software for robust short-messaging exchange
on HF bands.

When we did it we found, that it is looks very like as APRS ,
so we wrote HF Pager -> APRS gate also.

https://www.facebook.com/dxsoft/posts/3912579878815224

https://nvis.club/en/hf-proxys/hfpager/android

http://dxsoft.com/en/products/hfpager



--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com








Sergei Podstrigailo
 

Hello Sholto,

Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 6:11:38 AM, you wrote:

SF> I downloaded it and paid for the reasonable licence. Not tried it out yet
SF> but plan to soon. Unfortunately I only have 40m here.

SF> Interestingly it gives you a numeric 'call sign' when you activate it.
SF> I'm not sure how this works for id purposes though.

Yes, this digital ID is used to identify _terminal_ , not operator.

To identify yourself, use your callsign in transmitted text.

Just like in AMTOR-ARQ only 4 letter is used during connection, not full callsign.

Receiving station saves and shows all mesage, but it can send ACK-packet for message for its ID.

Android version also shows notification if message for your ID is received.


Good way is to include your callsign in specially formatted tag in beginning of beacon message, i.e.
#;K7TMG-12;Hello

In this case any AprsGate which received your beacon will shows you as K7TMG-12 in APRS net.

SF> Sholto
SF> K7TMG

SF> four year ago Eugeny UA3AHM wrote me e-mail and suggest to create
SF> software for robust short-messaging exchange
SF> on HF bands.

SF> When we did it we found, that it is looks very like as APRS ,
SF> so we wrote HF Pager -> APRS gate also.

SF> https://www.facebook.com/dxsoft/posts/3912579878815224

SF> https://nvis.club/en/hf-proxys/hfpager/android

SF> http://dxsoft.com/en/products/hfpager



--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com


 

Not me. I see no difference with FSQ or JS8 which are line at a time modes. So why switch? 73, tom w7sua

On 6/1/2020 3:24 PM, Chiefsfan2 wrote:
Interesting, is there anyone in the US using it?
On May 31, 2020, 19:15 -0500, Andrew OBrien <k3ukandy@...>, wrote:
Thanks for the info , I will check it out

Andy K3uk


On May 31, 2020, at 5:31 PM, Sergei Podstrigailo <amx2@...> wrote:

Hello all,

four year ago Eugeny UA3AHM wrote me e-mail and suggest to create software for robust short-messaging exchange
on HF bands.

When we did it we found, that it is looks very like as APRS ,
so we wrote HF Pager -> APRS gate also.

https://www.facebook.com/dxsoft/posts/3912579878815224

https://nvis.club/en/hf-proxys/hfpager/android

http://dxsoft.com/en/products/hfpager



--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com





Chuck K4RGN
 

I tried JS8CALL but didn't care for it. However, it is widely used... at least as much as Olivia, probably more. The problem is that the waterfall signature of JS8CALL is virtually identical to the waterfall signature of FT8, but there is no interoperability between the two modes. Having JS8CALL and FT8 share a frequency would be chaos for both modes. A proposal like that would be "dead on arrival".

---
Chuck Till
K4RGN@...
Raleigh, Wake County, North Carolina, 27613, USA (FM05pv81)


Sergei Podstrigailo
 

Hello Tom,

Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 8:26:42 AM, you wrote:

TW> Not me. I see no difference with FSQ or JS8 which are line at a time
TW> modes. So why switch? 73, tom w7sua

The PS-18 mode is developed for reliable exchange of real information between live people.
It is not chat mode, not contest mode and not "just make QSO" mode.

It is really very like APRS, but is much more robust.



--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com


 

Needs a Linux implementation.

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 8:41 AM Sergei Podstrigailo <amx2@...> wrote:
Hello Tom,

Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 8:26:42 AM, you wrote:

TW> Not me. I see no difference with FSQ or JS8 which are line at a time
TW> modes. So why switch? 73, tom w7sua

The PS-18 mode is developed for reliable exchange of real information between live people.
It is not chat mode, not contest mode and not "just make QSO" mode.

It is really very like APRS, but is much more robust.



--
Best regards,
 Sergei                            mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com






--
John D. Hays
Kingston, WA
K7VE

 


Kristoff Bonne
 

Hi Sergei,



No open-source and no open documentation ???
Wauw .. THAT is 1990s retro! :-(


73
kristoff - ON1ARF

On 31/05/2020 23:30, Sergei Podstrigailo wrote:
Hello all,

four year ago Eugeny UA3AHM wrote me e-mail and suggest to create software for robust short-messaging exchange
on HF bands.

When we did it we found, that it is looks very like as APRS ,
so we wrote HF Pager -> APRS gate also.

https://www.facebook.com/dxsoft/posts/3912579878815224

https://nvis.club/en/hf-proxys/hfpager/android

http://dxsoft.com/en/products/hfpager



 

Hi Sergei.

I am a little confused. I use the term "chat" as the same as "conversation" as the same as "exchanging real information" between live people. Mostly a QSO where it is not (semi)automated or conducted with macros only but keyboard to keyboard typing between two hams. That sounded like PS-18. I will find and download to learn more.

In addition I have used fldigi/flwrap/flmsg as a way to exchange error corrected messages for others like when I was an NCS for a digital traffic net. In addition JS8Call allows messages with check sums to be relayed and stored or picked up. FSQCall allows the same thing and has a messages helper application. Both with live people and dropping off messages to help say remote stations communicate via relays and send messages.

So I am not sure how the above is not exchanging real information between live people same as with PS-18. Line or sentence at a time as different speeds and robustness depending on which underlying modem you are using.

73, tom w7sua

On 6/2/2020 8:41 AM, Sergei Podstrigailo wrote:
Hello Tom,
Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 8:26:42 AM, you wrote:
TW> Not me. I see no difference with FSQ or JS8 which are line at a time
TW> modes. So why switch? 73, tom w7sua
The PS-18 mode is developed for reliable exchange of real information between live people.
It is not chat mode, not contest mode and not "just make QSO" mode.
It is really very like APRS, but is much more robust.


Andrew OBrien
 

I have it downloaded and unregistered version installed for a test.  The first question is ... what are the suggested frequencies?


Andy K3UK 


Sergei Podstrigailo
 

Hello John,

Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 10:43:50 PM, you wrote:

JDHK> Needs a Linux implementation.

It works fine under wine :-)


JDHK> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 8:41 AM Sergei Podstrigailo <amx2@...> wrote:

Hello Tom,

Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 8:26:42 AM, you wrote:

TW> Not me. I see no difference with FSQ or JS8 which are line at a time
TW> modes. So why switch? 73, tom w7sua

The PS-18 mode is developed for reliable exchange of real information
between live people.
It is not chat mode, not contest mode and not "just make QSO" mode.

It is really very like APRS, but is much more robust.



--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com




--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com


Bob
 

Can you post the link for it please?

Thanks.

Bob, WK2Y

 

From: main@digitalradio.groups.io <main@digitalradio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andrew OBrien
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2020 2:12 PM
To: main@digitalradio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [digital-mode-radio] New digital mode PS-18 (HF pager) from DXsoft and Radial, or we invented APRS again :-)

 

I have it downloaded and unregistered version installed for a test.  The first question is ... what are the suggested frequencies?


Andy K3UK 


Andrew OBrien
 


Sergei Podstrigailo
 

Hello Andrew,

Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 1:11:42 AM, you wrote:

AO> I have it downloaded and unregistered version installed for a test.  The
AO> first question is ... what are the suggested frequencies?


Originally software was developed for NVIS propagation at lower frequency HF-bands.


There is R1BBG via UA3AHM-PG gate at 3.775 MHz, 40 W and 2 (two !) meters pin was used.

https://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=7&call=a%2FUA3AHM-PG%2Ca%2FHFPG05009&timerange=3600&tail=3600


Surely, it can be used for DX communications at 20 meters and above also.


--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com


 

Native on ARM and x86 Linux (64 and 32 bit)


On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 11:22 Sergei Podstrigailo <amx2@...> wrote:
Hello John,

Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 10:43:50 PM, you wrote:

JDHK> Needs a Linux implementation.

It works fine under wine :-)


JDHK> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 8:41 AM Sergei Podstrigailo <amx2@...> wrote:

>> Hello Tom,
>>
>> Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 8:26:42 AM, you wrote:
>>
>> TW> Not me. I see no difference with FSQ or JS8 which are line at a time
>> TW> modes. So why switch? 73, tom w7sua
>>
>> The PS-18 mode is developed for reliable exchange of real information
>> between live people.
>> It is not chat mode, not contest mode and not "just make QSO" mode.
>>
>> It is really very like APRS, but is much more robust.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>  Sergei                            mailto:amx2@...
>>
>> Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>




--
Best regards,
 Sergei                            mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com





Sergei Podstrigailo
 

Hello Tom,

Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 12:50:24 AM, you wrote:

TW> Hi Sergei.

TW> I am a little confused. I use the term "chat" as the same as
TW> "conversation" as the same as "exchanging real information" between live
TW> people. Mostly a QSO where it is not (semi)automated or conducted with
TW> macros only but keyboard to keyboard typing between two hams. That
TW> sounded like PS-18. I will find and download to learn more.

Features of the PS-18 (HF pager) mode.

1. Used simple but robust modulation (18-tone IFSK).
It can be transmit and decoded easy,
but it is resistant to noice, fading (amplitude change)
and slow frequency deviation (inaccurate tuning).

2. An effective FEC is used based on the Reed-Solomon code RS(15.7) with fourfold
interleaving, which allows you to work through
channels with deep and long fading with up to 25% of raw errors.

3. The baud rate (5.86 or 1.46 Bd) is selected by the operator,
the receiver decodes both speeds simultaneously.

4. An exchange of address messages up to 252 characters long
without establishing a connection is provided.

5. In response to a received message positive (ACK) or negative (NAK) acknowledgment
can be automatically sent.

6. The message may be automatically repeated until confirmation
is received or a timeout occurs.

7. It is possible to automatically transmit periodic messages (beacons)
to identificate station presence on air. A beacon can be accompanied by
telegraphic CW-ID at a speed of 100 LPM (20 WPM).

8. The complete set of data from the GPS receiver may be included in a beacon.

9. The identifier of the terminal is a two-byte integer (1 ... 65534),
amateur callsign can be included if necessary in the message text,
beacon or in CW-D.

10.A specially formatted amateur callsign in a text of a beacon or
a message can be used to identify the operator during forwarding
a beacon or message to the APRS network.

11.The protocol itself allows you to transmit a full set of single-byte characters (0 ... 255),
the text part of the message displays an almost complete set (1 ... 255).
Android version of software displays characters as transmitted in Windows-1251 encoding.





--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com


Kristoff Bonne
 

Hi all,


APRS is typically run on a small device, so a MCU- or FPGA/MCU-implementation (cortex M4/RV32) seams like a logical step too.

Ah, and a GNU Radio block!


73

On 2/06/2020 22:21, John D Hays - K7VE wrote:
Native on ARM and x86 Linux (64 and 32 bit)

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 11:22 Sergei Podstrigailo <amx2@... <mailto:amx2@...>> wrote:

Hello John,

Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 10:43:50 PM, you wrote:

JDHK> Needs a Linux implementation.

It works fine under wine :-)


JDHK> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 8:41 AM Sergei Podstrigailo
<amx2@... <mailto:amx2@...>> wrote:

>> Hello Tom,
>>
>> Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 8:26:42 AM, you wrote:
>>
>> TW> Not me. I see no difference with FSQ or JS8 which are line
at a time
>> TW> modes. So why switch? 73, tom w7sua
>>
>> The PS-18 mode is developed for reliable exchange of real
information
>> between live people.
>> It is not chat mode, not contest mode and not "just make QSO" mode.
>>
>> It is really very like APRS, but is much more robust.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>  Sergei                            mailto:amx2@...
<mailto:amx2@...>
>>
>> Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>




--
Best regards,
 Sergei                            mailto:amx2@...
<mailto:amx2@...>

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com





Sergei Podstrigailo
 

Hello Kristoff,

Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 4:31:29 AM, you wrote:


KB> APRS is typically run on a small device, so a MCU- or
KB> FPGA/MCU-implementation (cortex M4/RV32) seams like a logical step too.

Yes, we have simple beacon solution
using GPS-module, SI5351 module and ATMEGA328 (Arduino micro or nano module can be used).



--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com