Topics

PSK31 decline dominant ? #JT65 #PSK31


Andrew O'Brien
 

I did quite a bit of monitoring over the holidays and it did appear to confirm that JT65A is now in use more than PSK31.  I'm wondering if it is related to the actual performance of JT65 on HF or if it is a sign that the average ham finds JT65A more convenient from an operating perspective ?  Less interaction, more mechanical in terms of response expected. Don't have to be "conversational". 

Andy K3UK


W6IDS <w6ids@...>
 

Andy, I’d say that it is due to the ability to have less interaction, a more mechanical response and definitely
not having to be conversational.  Why do I agree with that?  Simply because of Hams not being engaging.
Contacts are brisk, unimaginative, truly un-informing and with the typical operator definitely relying upon
the use of Macros.
 
All of that makes for a “safe, convenient operating perspective” IMHO of course.  Then too, there could
be the matter of folks not being able to use their fingers for anything other than “hunt ‘n peck” which is
why SMS Txting is so easily  relied upon.  So, enter the Macro to eliminate typing in real time.
 
It doesn’t work for ME, I’m just sayin’. . . . . . . I type 72 wpm and “run off at the fingers,” as you can see.
<GRIN>
 
Howard W6IDS
Richmond, IN
 

From: Andrew O'Brien
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 8:10 AM
To: main@digitalradio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] PSK31 decline #JT65 dominant ?
 

I did quite a bit of monitoring over the holidays and it did appear to confirm that JT65A is now in use more than PSK31.  I'm wondering if it is related to the actual performance of JT65 on HF or if it is a sign that the average ham finds JT65A more convenient from an operating perspective ?  Less interaction, more mechanical in terms of response expected. Don't have to be "conversational".

Andy K3UK


NKemp
 

This discussion plays into an observation that much of amateur radio is about logging quick contacts, technology demonstrations and not about communicating.  That is not necessarily meant as bad but I believe that the amateur radio hobby could be enhanced by encouraging more communication. 

Nick
N1KMP

Reply based on the following comments:

...I’d say that it is due to the ability to have less interaction, a more mechanical response and definitely
not having to be conversational.  Why do I agree with that?  Simply because of Hams not being engaging.
Contacts are brisk, unimaginative, truly un-informing and ...

Less interaction, more mechanical in terms of response expected. Don't have to be "conversational".



Amy W <netcrusher88@...>
 

I think there's some of that, but I also feel like PSK31, when I've
had the chance to use it, hasn't really felt like a
keyboard-to-keyboard mode. I'm sure this varies across bands and times
and such, but - as long as there is, like Nick says, going to be a
focus on scripted, high-throughput contacts (which is a fine way to
operate sometimes, most of my contacts are JT65 or JT9... but there
are other reasons), might as well use something more durable.

Durability being the other half of the problem. That might be the
wrong word. We're at kind of an unfortunate confluence of a declining
solar cycle and ever-increasing noise floor (I love LED bulbs, but
they can make a *racket*) so modes where you make contact after
contact with a report around with around -23 dB SNR are awfully
attractive. Also, where you can make QSOs when you're pulling in the
other station at well below the noise floor.

PSK31 may fall somewhat to environmental conditions. I hope to see FSK
modes ascendant for keyboard to keyboard contacts.

Amy
K3ISI

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 8:47 AM, NKemp <nkemp1165@hotmail.com> wrote:
This discussion plays into an observation that much of amateur radio is
about logging quick contacts, technology demonstrations and not about
communicating. That is not necessarily meant as bad but I believe that the
amateur radio hobby could be enhanced by encouraging more communication.

Nick
N1KMP

Reply based on the following comments:

...I’d say that it is due to the ability to have less interaction, a more
mechanical response and definitely
not having to be conversational. Why do I agree with that? Simply because
of Hams not being engaging.
Contacts are brisk, unimaginative, truly un-informing and ...


Less interaction, more mechanical in terms of response expected. Don't have
to be "conversational".




W6IDS <w6ids@...>
 

Hi Amy,

I'm not sure I am understanding your comment about PSK31 or PSK63, et al
for that matter. I don't see it to be any different than RTTY or PACTOR/AMTOR
and such. Typing ahead in a buffer, then sending when the other person has
stopped. Keyboard - keyboard IMHO. KB-KB even if marginally keeping ahead
of the typing buffer while you are sending - same thing to me.

Are you seeing something different when discussing a PSK contact? Are you
maybe glancing at the macros?

I can't speak to JT65 for lack of use here. I'm just contributing to an esoteric
thread that struck my interest, touching a seemingly apparent decline of the
PSK signals and reasons maybe.

Simplified communicating is, maybe, one reason why I never grabbed onto the
SIM PSK or how ever it's named.

RTTY has always been there. That's an AFSK/FSK protocol - only problem is
Hams have now kept it in the closet until the next contest. PSK always was
active regardless.

Howard W6IDS
Richmond, IN

-----Original Message-----
From: Amy W
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 3:15 PM
To: main@digitalradio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] PSK31 decline #JT65 dominant ?

I think there's some of that, but I also feel like PSK31, when I've
had the chance to use it, hasn't really felt like a
keyboard-to-keyboard mode. I'm sure this varies across bands and times
and such, but - as long as there is, like Nick says, going to be a
focus on scripted, high-throughput contacts (which is a fine way to
operate sometimes, most of my contacts are JT65 or JT9... but there
are other reasons), might as well use something more durable.

Durability being the other half of the problem. That might be the
wrong word. We're at kind of an unfortunate confluence of a declining
solar cycle and ever-increasing noise floor (I love LED bulbs, but
they can make a *racket*) so modes where you make contact after
contact with a report around with around -23 dB SNR are awfully
attractive. Also, where you can make QSOs when you're pulling in the
other station at well below the noise floor.

PSK31 may fall somewhat to environmental conditions. I hope to see FSK
modes ascendant for keyboard to keyboard contacts.

Amy
K3ISI

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 8:47 AM, NKemp <nkemp1165@hotmail.com> wrote:
This discussion plays into an observation that much of amateur radio is
about logging quick contacts, technology demonstrations and not about
communicating. That is not necessarily meant as bad but I believe that the
amateur radio hobby could be enhanced by encouraging more communication.

Nick
N1KMP

Reply based on the following comments:

...I’d say that it is due to the ability to have less interaction, a more
mechanical response and definitely
not having to be conversational. Why do I agree with that? Simply because
of Hams not being engaging.
Contacts are brisk, unimaginative, truly un-informing and ...


Less interaction, more mechanical in terms of response expected. Don't have
to be "conversational".




Mike Tarnowsky
 

I'll add my two bits here, (inflation won't allow two cents)' I use all three modes, PSK31, JT65, and JT9 and trying SIM31.

In the afternoon, early evening, I'll work PSK31 and periodically try a ragchew, but it depends on the other party if they want to 

chat or else it is just macro responses. If I go into chat mode, I have a macro to let them know I'm typing and not get bored waiting. The difficulty I have with PSK31 may be propagation because the other station presents a weak signal on my waterfall. If I call they may not hear me. Oh yes, running 40w for PSK.

In the evening about 0200 to 0330z I switch to wsjt-x. Quite alot of activity on JT65, but then I switch to JT9 which is not as

active as JT65.  I have worked more DX  there than any other mode. Even with power lowered to 30 to 35 w. Again that depends on signal strength received. 

In the late sixties I would ragchew with hams I knew, both cw and ssb.  I think the speed qso's are the result of getting conditioned by dxcc, was and contesting where bam, bam, log it is the rule.  I regret I no longer have the qsl's I got in the 60's and 70's when I got my certificates. So now, I along with others like to collect cards mostly using eqsl but mailing some.

Almost impossible to get foreign cards due to no more IRC's, expensive postage and possible theft on the receiving end. But 

all my foreign contacts use eqsl so our exchange is easy. I don't think PSK31 will fade away, it is a good and fun mode. 

PSK63 is even better being faster.  Feldhell is kind of fun too. Thats my rambling to test the new group site. Thanks to 

all, have a fun new year. Mike T., WB2YJS




Bob Gerzoff <bob@...>
 

Each mode has a different appeal for me.  On PSK, I can hunt for the special event stations and, every once in a rare while, have a real rag chew.   I always am a bit disappointed when my openings for a conversation are quickly dismissed with a macro SK.  Sometimes I think there ought to be something like a CQRC for times when we are not looking for just a macro exchange.

 

I also like JT65 because I hear and can contact stations that I would not be able to in any other mode.   For just making contacts for WAS or WAC, it’s pretty incredible and the new JTDX is close to being magic in my book.  I finally worked Hawaii and the signal reports were roughly -23db!

 

73 and Happy New Year,

Bob

WK2Y


Sholto Fisher
 

You can see what people are using here:
https://pskreporter.info/cgi-bin/pskstats.pl
(scroll down to "Modes over last 2 hours")

Even allowing for less spotting of other modes, JT modes are king.

I predict we'll see JT9 overtake JT65 maybe sometime this year due to JT65
overcrowding and the extra couple of dB sensitivity.

73

Sholto
K7TMG


Andrew O'Brien
 

I think the PSK Reporter stats maybe be distorted by the fact that almost all JT  users turn on the report to PSK Reporter feature whereas many PSK31 operators probbly do not activate this feature .
Andy K3UK

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 5:34 PM, Sholto Fisher <sholto@...> wrote:
You can see what people are using here:
https://pskreporter.info/cgi-bin/pskstats.pl
(scroll down to "Modes over last 2 hours")

Even allowing for less spotting of other modes, JT modes are king.

I predict we'll see JT9 overtake JT65 maybe sometime this year due to JT65
overcrowding and the extra couple of dB sensitivity.

73

Sholto
K7TMG








--
Andy


Sholto Fisher
 

I'm sure you're right Andy but adding up JT65 & JT9 is close to 40 times
the number of PSK31 spots. I wonder what the ratio of spotting actually
is?

A lot probably end up on Hamspots.net too if people are using JTalert.

I left JTDX running for 24 hours and was rewarded with a nice reception
map. I'm pretty certain I wouldn't have decoded as well with WSJT-X or
JT65-HF.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/smnll1qp7485ewf/jtdx_pskreporter.png?dl=0

73

Sholto
K7TMG

I think the PSK Reporter stats maybe be distorted by the fact that almost
all JT users turn on the report to PSK Reporter feature whereas many
PSK31
operators probbly do not activate this feature .
Andy K3UK

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 5:34 PM, Sholto Fisher <sholto@redpin.com> wrote:

You can see what people are using here:
https://pskreporter.info/cgi-bin/pskstats.pl
(scroll down to "Modes over last 2 hours")

Even allowing for less spotting of other modes, JT modes are king.

I predict we'll see JT9 overtake JT65 maybe sometime this year due to
JT65
overcrowding and the extra couple of dB sensitivity.

73

Sholto
K7TMG






--
Andy