Noise


w4lde
 

If this question is inappropriate for the reflector I apologize but as of last Friday I started to experience significant noise (S-9) on all bands from 160 through 15M with the lower frequencies much stronger. I thought that it was due to power line noise but it appears to be intermittent in that it completely disappeared last Friday evening but once again showed up last Saturday and stayed this way. On the Ft1000mp the noise blankers are completely ineffective. At the same time I started having internet problems and the cable company indicated they should have the speed issue fixed by Tuesday.

The cables are run on poles until they enter a subdivision which then run underground. My question is can cable lines be the possible problem to HF frequencies? The power and cable companies have been installing new poles and running new lines in the area which initially led me to believe it was a power issue however, while I was writing this email the noise completely disappeared for a few seconds and then reappeared. As I was looking out my window I noticed a cable company buck truck through the woods towards the main road, I am off now to talk to them and see what I can discover. Any suggestions?

Thanks for the bandwidth if this question is inappropriate for this reflector.

73 de
Ron W4LDE


expeditionradio
 

Hi Ron,

Use a portable HF receiver with a whip antenna and walk around, track
it down by signal strength. This will find the source 90% of the time.

Take 2 ferrites and call me in the morning...

Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, w4lde <w4lde@...> wrote:
I started to experience significant noise (S-9) on all
bands from 160 through 15M with the lower frequencies much stronger.
Any suggestions?
Ron W4LDE


Graham
 

Ron,

One handy trick, the local 'radio inspcetor' for want of a better
name, passed on to me was ... That the closer you get to the noise
source .. the higher in frequency you can pick it up .. I had a wide
band signal taking all of 145 Mhz out ... finally tracked it down,
using a uhf 'tv' ae and my frg9600 tuned round 800 Mhz with the yagi
I managed to pin point the problem .. a chattering rely in a large
tumble dryer .. the mains cable was raditing ...

I spent ages with a hf and mw set but never managed a good fix,
signals came from all over

G ..


--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "expeditionradio"
<expeditionradio@...> wrote:

Hi Ron,

Use a portable HF receiver with a whip antenna and walk around,
track
it down by signal strength. This will find the source 90% of the
time.

Take 2 ferrites and call me in the morning...

Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, w4lde <w4lde@> wrote:
I started to experience significant noise (S-9) on all
bands from 160 through 15M with the lower frequencies much
stronger.
Any suggestions?
Ron W4LDE


John Taylor <ke5ham3@...>
 

Ron, as a semi direct answer to your question, as a general rule
cable tv frequencies typically are well above hf radio. It is not
impossible for there to be interference, but generally it will be
some other source. One thing to remember with most cable systems is
that the line and trunk amps need to be powered and are usualy done
through the cable itself with pole mounted power supplies every so
often in the system. If there is a connection breakdown somewhere
near you, it"could" cause your symptoms. You did provide a clue to
your own situation. You mentioned a bucket truck in the area when the
noise suddenly stopped and then started again. If he was working at a
particular pole, you might try physically walking to that pole and
see if you hear any arcing, especially if this is also a power pole
carrying primary voltages. It is not uncommon for the insulators to
start breaking down due to dirt and grime in the air getting on the
insulators and forming a path for the current to travel. This
manifests itself frequently as strong intermittant static.
Your noise blanker typically only works on "impulse" noise such as
ignition, etc.
Have you also eliminated all noise sources in your own home, such as
televisions, computers and monitors, etc.?
A great way to chase the source is to take a small portable shortwave
receiver with a small antenna and follow the noise to it's source.
You can usually get very close very quickly with a little leg work.
Just some thoughts ....
Best of Luck

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, w4lde <w4lde@...> wrote:

If this question is inappropriate for the reflector I apologize but
as
of last Friday I started to experience significant noise (S-9) on
all
bands from 160 through 15M with the lower frequencies much
stronger. I
thought that it was due to power line noise but it appears to be
intermittent in that it completely disappeared last Friday evening
but
once again showed up last Saturday and stayed this way. On the
Ft1000mp
the noise blankers are completely ineffective. At the same time I
started having internet problems and the cable company indicated
they
should have the speed issue fixed by Tuesday.

The cables are run on poles until they enter a subdivision which
then
run underground. My question is can cable lines be the possible
problem
to HF frequencies? The power and cable companies have been
installing
new poles and running new lines in the area which initially led me
to
believe it was a power issue however, while I was writing this
email the
noise completely disappeared for a few seconds and then
reappeared. As
I was looking out my window I noticed a cable company buck truck
through the woods towards the main road, I am off now to talk to
them
and see what I can discover. Any suggestions?

Thanks for the bandwidth if this question is inappropriate for this
reflector.

73 de
Ron W4LDE


Bill P.
 

Having experienced something like this last year, a fried eggs
sizzling noise I tried many recommendations. BTW, our utilities are
underground. Eliminate your house as the source of the problem by
running your rig from a battery and shut off the house circuit
breakers, everything. Don't overlook a bad PC UPS and poor wall wart
power supplies.

Ok, maybe the noise is not in your house, now put your hiking boots on
and walk the neighborhood with headphones, a FT817 and whip antenna.
Someone told me that AM on 138Mhz was best for finding noise, I cannot
be sure of that but I sure did find a lot of weird stuff, houses
making buzzing noises, street intersections with screeching noises
.... It actually became very interesting and confusing. I put many
nights into walking the neighborhood and beyond since none of the
noises I heard to date traveled very far. Suddenly the noise at my
rig went away and never returned. I can only imagine it was a
neighbors electric blanket or fish tank heater ... or maybe something
caught fire and burnt itself out. Anyway, I won't miss poking at
around houses with the whip to seek out electrical noises. Bill k6acj

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, w4lde <w4lde@...> wrote:

If this question is inappropriate for the reflector I apologize but as
of last Friday I started to experience significant noise (S-9) on all
bands from 160 through 15M with the lower frequencies much stronger. I
thought that it was due to power line noise but it appears to be
intermittent in that it completely disappeared last Friday evening but
once again showed up last Saturday and stayed this way. On the
Ft1000mp
the noise blankers are completely ineffective. At the same time I
started having internet problems and the cable company indicated they
should have the speed issue fixed by Tuesday.

The cables are run on poles until they enter a subdivision which then
run underground. My question is can cable lines be the possible
problem
to HF frequencies? The power and cable companies have been installing
new poles and running new lines in the area which initially led me to
believe it was a power issue however, while I was writing this email
the
noise completely disappeared for a few seconds and then reappeared. As
I was looking out my window I noticed a cable company buck truck
through the woods towards the main road, I am off now to talk to them
and see what I can discover. Any suggestions?

Thanks for the bandwidth if this question is inappropriate for this
reflector.

73 de
Ron W4LDE


w4lde
 

Bill,

Thanks for the info, well we have eliminated our home and all others in the neighborhood, wish it was ours or theres, however, on the good side is that I received a call from the Manager of Maintenance from our local power company today and he stated don't worry we will find and fix the problem. We have the equipment to track down the source and it not uncommon for this to happen. We spoke for quite some time and he told me of things they have found and how they fixed it. One was a staple driven through a doorbell chime line to the doorbell switch, another a loss connection from the cable co to there ground, I got a lesson listing. I was taken back since he told me he has two crews whom are 100% assigned to finding and helping with these issues. Wow I thought a power company that really wants to help! Took me back to the good old days of good customer service and stated they would try to get to the problem tomorrow and at the latest on Friday

I have an uneasy felling that it has to do with the local cable company who have been replacing lines the whole week on a main road not to far from me. That's were I find the greatest noise coming from and I am hoping for a quick and easy fix, time will tell.

Keep you and the group posted, one thing I have learned is that digital communications can still get through while SSB and or CW have a tough time with these old ears.

Again thanks for the advice.

73 de
Ron W4LDE


Bill P. wrote:


Having experienced something like this last year, a fried eggs
sizzling noise I tried many recommendations. BTW, our utilities are
underground. Eliminate your house as the source of the problem by
running your rig from a battery and shut off the house circuit
breakers, everything. Don't overlook a bad PC UPS and poor wall wart
power supplies.

Ok, maybe the noise is not in your house, now put your hiking boots on
and walk the neighborhood with headphones, a FT817 and whip antenna.
Someone told me that AM on 138Mhz was best for finding noise, I cannot
be sure of that but I sure did find a lot of weird stuff, houses
making buzzing noises, street intersections with screeching noises
.... It actually became very interesting and confusing. I put many
nights into walking the neighborhood and beyond since none of the
noises I heard to date traveled very far. Suddenly the noise at my
rig went away and never returned. I can only imagine it was a
neighbors electric blanket or fish tank heater ... or maybe something
caught fire and burnt itself out. Anyway, I won't miss poking at
around houses with the whip to seek out electrical noises. Bill k6acj

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com <mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com>, w4lde <w4lde@...> wrote:

If this question is inappropriate for the reflector I apologize but as
of last Friday I started to experience significant noise (S-9) on all
bands from 160 through 15M with the lower frequencies much stronger. I
thought that it was due to power line noise but it appears to be
intermittent in that it completely disappeared last Friday evening but
once again showed up last Saturday and stayed this way. On the
Ft1000mp
the noise blankers are completely ineffective. At the same time I
started having internet problems and the cable company indicated they
should have the speed issue fixed by Tuesday.

The cables are run on poles until they enter a subdivision which then
run underground. My question is can cable lines be the possible
problem
to HF frequencies? The power and cable companies have been installing
new poles and running new lines in the area which initially led me to
believe it was a power issue however, while I was writing this email
the
noise completely disappeared for a few seconds and then reappeared. As
I was looking out my window I noticed a cable company buck truck
through the woods towards the main road, I am off now to talk to them
and see what I can discover. Any suggestions?

Thanks for the bandwidth if this question is inappropriate for this
reflector.

73 de
Ron W4LDE


George Csahanin
 

A couple of things from experience...

First, cable internet service does use HF frequencies. I forget which direction is down there, but one is.

Second, your power company is a rare find these days. Ten years back it seems most truimmed the "fixit" guys to cut expenses. I've gone thru it with two power companies now. Time was when all power companies did just that, look for problems. If it is an insulator breaking down, for example, that's current being spent that isn't being billed to anyone. Add up enough of it and its real money to them.

but wideband noise like that may not be power company related. Here at my place I've had that now for a few years, making HF pretty useless. But don't discount wall warts. Most of them now are switchers, and make lots of noise. Just not wideband constant level noise so much. And since the energy bill last year, more to come, the feds now mandate efficiency of those things.

My two cents.

GeorgeC
W2DB


José A. Amador <amador@...>
 

It is usually so, but there are also return channels to the headend below 54 MHz in some places.

A loose conector or a broken shield might allow it to leak out.

73,

Jose, CO2JA

--

John Taylor escribi�:

Ron, as a semi direct answer to your question, as a general rule cable tv frequencies typically are well above hf radio. It is not impossible for there to be interference, but generally it will be some other source. One thing to remember with most cable systems is that the line and trunk amps need to be powered and are usualy done through the cable itself with pole mounted power supplies every so often in the system. If there is a connection breakdown somewhere near you, it"could" cause your symptoms. You did provide a clue to your own situation. You mentioned a bucket truck in the area when the noise suddenly stopped and then started again. If he was working at a particular pole, you might try physically walking to that pole and see if you hear any arcing, especially if this is also a power pole carrying primary voltages. It is not uncommon for the insulators to start breaking down due to dirt and grime in the air getting on the insulators and forming a path for the current to travel. This manifests itself frequently as strong intermittant static.
Your noise blanker typically only works on "impulse" noise such as ignition, etc. Have you also eliminated all noise sources in your own home, such as televisions, computers and monitors, etc.?
A great way to chase the source is to take a small portable shortwave receiver with a small antenna and follow the noise to it's source. You can usually get very close very quickly with a little leg work.
Just some thoughts ....
Best of Luck

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, w4lde <w4lde@...> wrote:

If this question is inappropriate for the reflector I apologize but
as
of last Friday I started to experience significant noise (S-9) on
all
bands from 160 through 15M with the lower frequencies much
stronger. I
thought that it was due to power line noise but it appears to be intermittent in that it completely disappeared last Friday evening
but
once again showed up last Saturday and stayed this way. On the
Ft1000mp
the noise blankers are completely ineffective. At the same time I started having internet problems and the cable company indicated
they
should have the speed issue fixed by Tuesday.

The cables are run on poles until they enter a subdivision which
then
run underground. My question is can cable lines be the possible
problem
to HF frequencies? The power and cable companies have been
installing
new poles and running new lines in the area which initially led me
to
believe it was a power issue however, while I was writing this
email the
noise completely disappeared for a few seconds and then
reappeared. As
I was looking out my window I noticed a cable company buck truck through the woods towards the main road, I am off now to talk to
them
and see what I can discover. Any suggestions?

Thanks for the bandwidth if this question is inappropriate for this reflector.

73 de
Ron W4LDE



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Profesor Auxiliar
Departamento de Telecomunicaciones
Facultad de Ing. El�ctrica, CUJAE
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