Testing VARA.


KC9SGV
 

Hi All,

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.
https://rosmodem.wordpress.com

Scroll down


Bernie,
KC9SGV
Chicago


Dave AA6YQ
 

AA6YQ comments below
-----Original Message-----
From: main@digitalradio.groups.io [mailto:main@digitalradio.groups.io] On Behalf Of KC9SGV
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 9:26 AM
To: main@digitalradio.groups.io
Subject: [digitalradio] Testing VARA.

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.

Does it include a competent busy frequency detector?
73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Andrew OBrien
 

I will check Dave.


On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 10:27 PM, Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:
>>>AA6YQ comments below

-----Original Message-----
From: main@digitalradio.groups.io [mailto:main@digitalradio.groups.io] On Behalf Of KC9SGV
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 9:26 AM
To: main@digitalradio.groups.io
Subject: [digitalradio] Testing VARA.

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.

>>>Does it include a competent busy frequency detector?

       73,

             Dave, AA6YQ






Andrew OBrien
 

No busy detect feature in the VARA software.
Andy K3UK

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 10:29 PM, Andrew OBrien <k3ukandy@...> wrote:
I will check Dave.


On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 10:27 PM, Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:
>>>AA6YQ comments below

-----Original Message-----
From: main@digitalradio.groups.io [mailto:main@...ps.io] On Behalf Of KC9SGV
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 9:26 AM
To: main@digitalradio.groups.io
Subject: [digitalradio] Testing VARA.

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.

>>>Does it include a competent busy frequency detector?

       73,

             Dave, AA6YQ







KC9SGV
 

Station was attended at all times...

Has busy frequency detect as incorporated already with BPQ.
Will have that also once wrapped inside Winlink Express.

Rumors of 30k+ bytes/min on 10 meters in Europe...

KC9SGV


On Feb 17, 2018, at 8:25 AM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Hi All,

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.
https://rosmodem.wordpress.com

Scroll down


Bernie,
KC9SGV
Chicago


KC9SGV
 

image1.PNG


On Feb 20, 2018, at 10:20 PM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Station was attended at all times...

Has busy frequency detect as incorporated already with BPQ.
Will have that also once wrapped inside Winlink Express.

Rumors of 30k+ bytes/min on 10 meters in Europe...

KC9SGV


On Feb 17, 2018, at 8:25 AM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Hi All,

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.
https://rosmodem.wordpress.com

Scroll down


Bernie,
KC9SGV
Chicago


Walter Underwood
 

Reported in bits per second (as people normally do), that isn’t quite as impressive. About 4000 bps. That is OK, but I implemented a V.29bis modem on a PDP-11 in 1982 and that could do 9600 bps on a clean 4 kHz channel.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

On Feb 20, 2018, at 8:20 PM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Station was attended at all times...

Has busy frequency detect as incorporated already with BPQ.
Will have that also once wrapped inside Winlink Express.

Rumors of 30k+ bytes/min on 10 meters in Europe...

KC9SGV


On Feb 17, 2018, at 8:25 AM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Hi All,

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.
https://rosmodem.wordpress.com

Scroll down


Bernie,
KC9SGV
Chicago


KC9SGV
 
Edited

Well, that is impressive too...

VARA is <300 baud, < 2.4 KHz wide.
37,5 bps Symbol Rate with 52 carriers with the full firmware license.
KC9SGV


Andrew O'Brien
 

Interesting file transfer speeds . I don’t have any experience with Pactor but one of the things I assume about Pactor is that it can do a good job despite weak and noises conditions . Does VARA have the some robust characteristics or does it need bands like 10 to get to higher speeds ? 

Also , I’m puzzled about the Telnet part of all this . I do use RMS express but not sure how you use its Telnet with VARA . 


Andy K3UK



On Feb 20, 2018, at 11:22 PM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

<image1.PNG>


On Feb 20, 2018, at 10:20 PM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Station was attended at all times...

Has busy frequency detect as incorporated already with BPQ.
Will have that also once wrapped inside Winlink Express.

Rumors of 30k+ bytes/min on 10 meters in Europe...

KC9SGV


On Feb 17, 2018, at 8:25 AM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Hi All,

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.
https://rosmodem.wordpress.com

Scroll down


Bernie,
KC9SGV
Chicago


Andrew OBrien
 

When using VARA with RMS Express , do you ignore the PTT config in VARA and rely just on the RMS Express settings to PTT the readio ?

Andy K3Uk

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 4:58 AM, Andrew O'Brien <andrewobrie@...> wrote:
Interesting file transfer speeds . I don’t have any experience with Pactor but one of the things I assume about Pactor is that it can do a good job despite weak and noises conditions . Does VARA have the some robust characteristics or does it need bands like 10 to get to higher speeds ? 

Also , I’m puzzled about the Telnet part of all this . I do use RMS express but not sure how you use its Telnet with VARA . 


Andy K3UK



On Feb 20, 2018, at 11:22 PM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

<image1.PNG>


On Feb 20, 2018, at 10:20 PM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Station was attended at all times...

Has busy frequency detect as incorporated already with BPQ.
Will have that also once wrapped inside Winlink Express.

Rumors of 30k+ bytes/min on 10 meters in Europe...

KC9SGV


On Feb 17, 2018, at 8:25 AM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Hi All,

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.
https://rosmodem.wordpress.com

Scroll down


Bernie,
KC9SGV
Chicago



Ev Tupis <w2ev@...>
 

It's easy enough to implement, though.  Kudos for thinking about that, Dave!
Ev, W2EV


On Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 10:35:18 PM EST, Andrew OBrien <k3ukandy@...> wrote:


No busy detect feature in the VARA software.
Andy K3UK

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 10:29 PM, Andrew OBrien <k3ukandy@...> wrote:
I will check Dave.


On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 10:27 PM, Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq@...> wrote:
>>>AA6YQ comments below

-----Original Message-----
From: main@digitalradio.groups.io [mailto:main@... ps.io] On Behalf Of KC9SGV
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 9:26 AM
To: main@digitalradio.groups.io
Subject: [digitalradio] Testing VARA.

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.

>>>Does it include a competent busy frequency detector?

       73,

             Dave, AA6YQ







Rick Muething
 

    Walter,

Bits per second is related to baud (symbols per second) but one symbol can be 1 or many bits:

e.g.

One carrier,  50 baud, BPSK = 50 bits/sec

One carrier, 50 baud QPSK = 100 bits/sec

One carrier 50 baud 16QAM = 200 bits/sec

40 carriers (OFDM) each 50 baud  16QAM = 8000 bits/sec.

On HF however with our typical low S:N and multipath it is usually difficult to exceed 2 bits/sec/Hz.  The channel capacity (theoretical limit on error-free bits/sec) is related to the channel's  S:N as described in Claude Shannon's brilliant paper of 1948.

Virtually all modern modes work this way sending more than 1 bit per symbol:  VARA, ARDOP, WINMOR, Pactor 3, Pactor 4 etc.

73,

Rick Muething, KN6KB


On 2/20/2018 11:24 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

Reported in bits per second (as people normally do), that isn’t quite as impressive. About 4000 bps. That is OK, but I implemented a V.29bis modem on a PDP-11 in 1982 and that could do 9600 bps on a clean 4 kHz channel.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

On Feb 20, 2018, at 8:20 PM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Station was attended at all times...

Has busy frequency detect as incorporated already with BPQ.
Will have that also once wrapped inside Winlink Express.

Rumors of 30k+ bytes/min on 10 meters in Europe...

KC9SGV


On Feb 17, 2018, at 8:25 AM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Hi All,

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.
https://rosmodem.wordpress.com

Scroll down


Bernie,
KC9SGV
Chicago



KC9SGV
 

Telnet to connect to the VARA modem via RMS Relay.
The same as manually setting up a sat phone modem...

I use VOX and my Signalink USB.

Comparison thruput speeds....not gospel.

Bernie,
KC9SGV


On Feb 21, 2018, at 3:58 AM, Andrew O'Brien <andrewobrie@...> wrote:

Interesting file transfer speeds . I don’t have any experience with Pactor but one of the things I assume about Pactor is that it can do a good job despite weak and noises conditions . Does VARA have the some robust characteristics or does it need bands like 10 to get to higher speeds ? 

Also , I’m puzzled about the Telnet part of all this . I do use RMS express but not sure how you use its Telnet with VARA . 


Andy K3UK



On Feb 20, 2018, at 11:22 PM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

<image1.PNG>


On Feb 20, 2018, at 10:20 PM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Station was attended at all times...

Has busy frequency detect as incorporated already with BPQ.
Will have that also once wrapped inside Winlink Express.

Rumors of 30k+ bytes/min on 10 meters in Europe...

KC9SGV


On Feb 17, 2018, at 8:25 AM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Hi All,

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.
https://rosmodem.wordpress.com

Scroll down


Bernie,
KC9SGV
Chicago


Bob NW8L
 

What is the price of the license to unlock the higher capacity modes?

Bob NW8L


KC9SGV
 

$69
Well worth it.
And I have no financial connection with the VARA effort.
Just enjoying seeing P3 thruput speeds...

KC9SGV


On Feb 21, 2018, at 10:16 AM, Bob NW8L <nw8l@...> wrote:

What is the price of the license to unlock the higher capacity modes?

Bob NW8L


Walter Underwood
 

I am quite familiar with baud and bits. The V.29 modem I worked on 35 years ago was 9600 bits/sec 16-QAM encoding at 1200 baud. V.29 is still used for faxes.


And yes, I know about Shannon, too.

Getting 4000 bps on 10 meters is great, but I would expect that to be a much better channel than most shortwave paths. It should be lower noise without as much “interesting” ionospheric distortion. Since they were reporting best performance, that could have been line of sight on 10 meters.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

On Feb 21, 2018, at 4:39 AM, Rick Muething <rmuething@...> wrote:

    Walter,

Bits per second is related to baud (symbols per second) but one symbol can be 1 or many bits:

e.g.

One carrier,  50 baud, BPSK = 50 bits/sec

One carrier, 50 baud QPSK = 100 bits/sec

One carrier 50 baud 16QAM = 200 bits/sec

40 carriers (OFDM) each 50 baud  16QAM = 8000 bits/sec.

On HF however with our typical low S:N and multipath it is usually difficult to exceed 2 bits/sec/Hz.  The channel capacity (theoretical limit on error-free bits/sec) is related to the channel's  S:N as described in Claude Shannon's brilliant paper of 1948.

Virtually all modern modes work this way sending more than 1 bit per symbol:  VARA, ARDOP, WINMOR, Pactor 3, Pactor 4 etc.

73,

Rick Muething, KN6KB


On 2/20/2018 11:24 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
Reported in bits per second (as people normally do), that isn’t quite as impressive. About 4000 bps. That is OK, but I implemented a V.29bis modem on a PDP-11 in 1982 and that could do 9600 bps on a clean 4 kHz channel.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

On Feb 20, 2018, at 8:20 PM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Station was attended at all times...

Has busy frequency detect as incorporated already with BPQ.
Will have that also once wrapped inside Winlink Express.

Rumors of 30k+ bytes/min on 10 meters in Europe...

KC9SGV


On Feb 17, 2018, at 8:25 AM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Hi All,

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.
https://rosmodem.wordpress.com

Scroll down


Bernie,
KC9SGV
Chicago




Tony
 

On 2/20/2018 11:20 PM, KC9SGV wrote:
Rumors of 30k+ bytes/min on 10 meters in Europe.

Any documentation on the web regarding FCC approval?

Tony -K2MO


Tony
 

Bernie: not able to open the link below. Could you please post the document Or send it direct? 

Thanks, Tony





Andrew O'Brien
 

Thanks Bernie for sharing this info . I know your call sign from the early days of Winmor and therefor know that you have good experience regarding throughput speeds.

Andy K3UK. 


On Feb 21, 2018, at 12:06 PM, Walter Underwood <wunder@...> wrote:

I am quite familiar with baud and bits. The V.29 modem I worked on 35 years ago was 9600 bits/sec 16-QAM encoding at 1200 baud. V.29 is still used for faxes.


And yes, I know about Shannon, too.

Getting 4000 bps on 10 meters is great, but I would expect that to be a much better channel than most shortwave paths. It should be lower noise without as much “interesting” ionospheric distortion. Since they were reporting best performance, that could have been line of sight on 10 meters.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

On Feb 21, 2018, at 4:39 AM, Rick Muething <rmuething@...> wrote:

    Walter,

Bits per second is related to baud (symbols per second) but one symbol can be 1 or many bits:

e.g.

One carrier,  50 baud, BPSK = 50 bits/sec

One carrier, 50 baud QPSK = 100 bits/sec

One carrier 50 baud 16QAM = 200 bits/sec

40 carriers (OFDM) each 50 baud  16QAM = 8000 bits/sec.

On HF however with our typical low S:N and multipath it is usually difficult to exceed 2 bits/sec/Hz.  The channel capacity (theoretical limit on error-free bits/sec) is related to the channel's  S:N as described in Claude Shannon's brilliant paper of 1948.

Virtually all modern modes work this way sending more than 1 bit per symbol:  VARA, ARDOP, WINMOR, Pactor 3, Pactor 4 etc.

73,

Rick Muething, KN6KB


On 2/20/2018 11:24 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
Reported in bits per second (as people normally do), that isn’t quite as impressive. About 4000 bps. That is OK, but I implemented a V.29bis modem on a PDP-11 in 1982 and that could do 9600 bps on a clean 4 kHz channel.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

On Feb 20, 2018, at 8:20 PM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Station was attended at all times...

Has busy frequency detect as incorporated already with BPQ.
Will have that also once wrapped inside Winlink Express.

Rumors of 30k+ bytes/min on 10 meters in Europe...

KC9SGV


On Feb 17, 2018, at 8:25 AM, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:

Hi All,

We are testing VARA this weekend on 7.101 MHz USB DIAL.
Impressive legal mode.
Beats P3 on both thruput and robustness.
Milspec digital for the ham bands.
https://rosmodem.wordpress.com

Scroll down


Bernie,
KC9SGV
Chicago




KC9SGV
 

Sent and received in Europe over a very difficult HF path with lots of QRM as reported...

image1.PNG


On Feb 21, 2018, at 2:31 PM, Anthony Bombardiere <DXDX@...> wrote:

Bernie: not able to open the link below. Could you please post the document Or send it direct? 

Thanks, Tony