Date   

Re: New digital mode PS-18 (HF pager) from DXsoft and Radial, or we invented APRS again :-)

Chiefsfan2
 

HF (pager) is just a title. If you look at the actual software, it is a app that allows two way texting. It sends a beacon if you you want which is no different than any other beacon in the amateur radio service which would be a one way communication. There are some groups actually using pagers on ham frequencies to alert their ares teams and also just for fun, are these in violation?

On Jun 24, 2020, 11:15 -0500, Cliff Fox (KU4GW) <cliffku4gw@...>, wrote:
I do see possible violations, it's up to the FCC's interpretation of the rules.
 
§97.113   Prohibited transmissions.
(a) No amateur station shall transmit:
 
(5) Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services.
 
*(The FCC already has frequencies allocated for pager systems)
 
(5)(b) An amateur station shall not engage in any form of broadcasting, nor may an amateur station transmit one-way communications except as specifically provided in these rules; nor shall an amateur station engage in any activity related to program production or news gathering for broadcasting purposes, except that communications directly related to the immediate safety of human life or the protection of property may be provided by amateur stations to broadcasters for dissemination to the public where no other means of communication is reasonably available before or at the time of the event.
 
*(A pager system is a one-way communication.)
 
I guess it would be up to the FCC whether to enforce the rule and given their recent history of Part 97 Rule enforcement, barely any at all, you can certainly give it a try to find out. The worst that would probably happen would likely be only a letter saying you can't do it. If they sent a letter saying that and then it was ignored then it may get worse. Give it a try, but choose your operating frequencies wisely so no one complains to the FCC about it interfering with ongoing communications. People already complain about the Automatcally Controlled Digital Systems like Winlink and nothing has been done about them randomly transmitting on top of ongoing communications. The ARRL's solution is them wanting to take 3600-3650 Khz away from Extra Class operators on 75/80 meters and use it for ACDS stations, but that's currently only a proposal (See ARRL Draft Bandplan Rev3h - 29Jan2020 Page 5 of PDF version) that hasn't been approved yet. I rarely get QRM from ACDS on 75/80 meters, 40 meters is where they're always giving me problems. The ARRL's bandplan proposal sets aside 7100-7125 Khz for ACDS on 40 meters. The same proposal includes giving phone privileges to Technician licensees from 3900-4000 Khz with a 200 watt maximum power limit. I have no problem yielding the bottom 50 khz of my Extra Class privileges to ACDS on 80 meters or the 7100-7125 on 40 meters. I do hope they don't grant the Technician licensees phone privileges on 75 meter phone because of 2 reasons; (1) Have you listened there how bad things have gotten there since they dumbed down the exams and dropped the code requirement altogether? It has gotten much worse from my soon to be quarter century of having my license! I had a station key up and ask me for a SWR report a while back! LOL! and (2) They don't deserve it! They need to get more education on radio in general, how it works, the technical side of things like what heterodyning is, what SWR is, etc. Just this OM's opinion. 
 
Very 73 and good luck!
Cliff, KU4GW


Re: New digital mode PS-18 (HF pager) from DXsoft and Radial, or we invented APRS again :-)

Cliff Fox (KU4GW) <cliffku4gw@...>
 

I do see possible violations, it's up to the FCC's interpretation of the rules.
 
§97.113   Prohibited transmissions.
(a) No amateur station shall transmit:
 
(5) Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services.
 
*(The FCC already has frequencies allocated for pager systems)
 
(5)(b) An amateur station shall not engage in any form of broadcasting, nor may an amateur station transmit one-way communications except as specifically provided in these rules; nor shall an amateur station engage in any activity related to program production or news gathering for broadcasting purposes, except that communications directly related to the immediate safety of human life or the protection of property may be provided by amateur stations to broadcasters for dissemination to the public where no other means of communication is reasonably available before or at the time of the event.
 
*(A pager system is a one-way communication.)
 
I guess it would be up to the FCC whether to enforce the rule and given their recent history of Part 97 Rule enforcement, barely any at all, you can certainly give it a try to find out. The worst that would probably happen would likely be only a letter saying you can't do it. If they sent a letter saying that and then it was ignored then it may get worse. Give it a try, but choose your operating frequencies wisely so no one complains to the FCC about it interfering with ongoing communications. People already complain about the Automatcally Controlled Digital Systems like Winlink and nothing has been done about them randomly transmitting on top of ongoing communications. The ARRL's solution is them wanting to take 3600-3650 Khz away from Extra Class operators on 75/80 meters and use it for ACDS stations, but that's currently only a proposal (See ARRL Draft Bandplan Rev3h - 29Jan2020 Page 5 of PDF version) that hasn't been approved yet. I rarely get QRM from ACDS on 75/80 meters, 40 meters is where they're always giving me problems. The ARRL's bandplan proposal sets aside 7100-7125 Khz for ACDS on 40 meters. The same proposal includes giving phone privileges to Technician licensees from 3900-4000 Khz with a 200 watt maximum power limit. I have no problem yielding the bottom 50 khz of my Extra Class privileges to ACDS on 80 meters or the 7100-7125 on 40 meters. I do hope they don't grant the Technician licensees phone privileges on 75 meter phone because of 2 reasons; (1) Have you listened there how bad things have gotten there since they dumbed down the exams and dropped the code requirement altogether? It has gotten much worse from my soon to be quarter century of having my license! I had a station key up and ask me for a SWR report a while back! LOL! and (2) They don't deserve it! They need to get more education on radio in general, how it works, the technical side of things like what heterodyning is, what SWR is, etc. Just this OM's opinion. 
 
Very 73 and good luck!
Cliff, KU4GW


Re: study material to teach hams on datacommunication

kt67
 

kristoff,

In the US we are quickly headed for a no test license.
So your fighting an uphill battle.

If you find that book pls let us know, I would read it.

Trip - KT4WO

On 6/23/20, Kristoff Bonne <kristoff@skypro.be> wrote:
Hi all,



As I once wrote some libraries for encoding POCSAG-messages on arduino
and GNU Radio that are now on github, I sometimes get mails from people
asking me about POCSAG.



Now, looking at some of the questions I get, I do notice quite a lack of
basic knowledge on digital communication in the amateur-radio community.
E.g. I do not know how many times I have already explained that FSK
("Frequency Shift Keying") -as used by POCSAG paging-, is in fact
nothing else but a variation on normal FM. I keep on asking myself
"isn't this something that somebody with a ham-license is supposed to
know?"

I get the impression that, although all ham-radio course do explain AM,
FM and SSB, for some reason the "digital" version of them (and how much
they are actually alike) are not really covered; or not to a degree that
people have an idea of digital communication really *is*.
For me, I learned most of digital communication from books (mainly on
land-based digital communication) but I must say that a lot of the books
and study-material on digital communication and datacomm do are either
oriented towards EE students (i.e. with a lot of focus on math) or to
much oriented on "operating" (i.e. not providing a descent theoretical
background on the topic)


So, ..  I'm looking for study-material or books that a provide a base
and descent theoretical background on the topic, but without all the
math that comes with the EE engineering-courses. By preference, the
course would build on the material used of the ham-radio license exam.
My target-audience is a typical amateur-radio operator:  learned
electronics via a courses in a local radio-amateur club, either no or
limited technical background) .

What would you advice to a fellow ham that wants to learn more about
digital communication, going beyond being just an operator?



Does the ARRL sell any good books on this topic?




73
kristoff - ON1ARF






study material to teach hams on datacommunication

Kristoff Bonne
 

Hi all,



As I once wrote some libraries for encoding POCSAG-messages on arduino and GNU Radio that are now on github, I sometimes get mails from people asking me about POCSAG.



Now, looking at some of the questions I get, I do notice quite a lack of basic knowledge on digital communication in the amateur-radio community.
E.g. I do not know how many times I have already explained that FSK ("Frequency Shift Keying") -as used by POCSAG paging-, is in fact nothing else but a variation on normal FM. I keep on asking myself "isn't this something that somebody with a ham-license is supposed to know?"

I get the impression that, although all ham-radio course do explain AM, FM and SSB, for some reason the "digital" version of them (and how much they are actually alike) are not really covered; or not to a degree that people have an idea of digital communication really *is*.
For me, I learned most of digital communication from books (mainly on land-based digital communication) but I must say that a lot of the books and study-material on digital communication and datacomm do are either oriented towards EE students (i.e. with a lot of focus on math) or to much oriented on "operating" (i.e. not providing a descent theoretical background on the topic)


So, ..  I'm looking for study-material or books that a provide a base and descent theoretical background on the topic, but without all the math that comes with the EE engineering-courses. By preference, the course would build on the material used of the ham-radio license exam.
My target-audience is a typical amateur-radio operator:  learned electronics via a courses in a local radio-amateur club, either no or limited technical background) .

What would you advice to a fellow ham that wants to learn more about digital communication, going beyond being just an operator?



Does the ARRL sell any good books on this topic?




73
kristoff - ON1ARF


Re: New digital mode PS-18 (HF pager) from DXsoft and Radial, or we invented APRS again :-)

Chiefsfan2
 

I don't see any violations.

On Jun 23, 2020, 00:00 -0500, Cliff Fox (KU4GW) <cliffku4gw@...>, wrote:
Unfortunately this may be illegal on amateur radio in the U.S. under FCC Rules & Regulations Part 97.113 (5) and (5) (b). 

73 de Cliff, KU4GW


Re: New digital mode PS-18 (HF pager) from DXsoft and Radial, or we invented APRS again :-)

Cliff Fox (KU4GW) <cliffku4gw@...>
 

Unfortunately this may be illegal on amateur radio in the U.S. under FCC Rules & Regulations Part 97.113 (5) and (5) (b). 

73 de Cliff, KU4GW


Re: New digital mode PS-18 (HF pager) from DXsoft and Radial, or we invented APRS again :-)

Chiefsfan2
 

Thanks Segei. I purchased the android app and as soon as I get my radio interface I'm going to try and stir up some activity here in the U.S.

On Jun 16, 2020, 08:48 -0500, Sergei Podstrigailo <amx2@...>, wrote:
Hello all,

HF Pager for Windows V2.80 and HF Pager for Android V3.10 were released:

http://dxsoft.com/hfpagerw.zip

HF Pager for Android 3.10 is released.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.radial.demo.hfpager

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.radial.full.hfpager

http://dxsoft.com/hfpageraen.html


CPU load has been significant reduced.
Channel busy detection algorithm was improved.
Channel sharing algorithm was improved.



--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com





Re: New digital mode PS-18 (HF pager) from DXsoft and Radial, or we invented APRS again :-)

Sergei Podstrigailo
 

Hello all,

HF Pager for Windows V2.80 and HF Pager for Android V3.10 were released:

http://dxsoft.com/hfpagerw.zip

HF Pager for Android 3.10 is released.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.radial.demo.hfpager

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.radial.full.hfpager

http://dxsoft.com/hfpageraen.html


CPU load has been significant reduced.
Channel busy detection algorithm was improved.
Channel sharing algorithm was improved.



--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@dxsoft.com

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com


Re: VARA on FM 2M

Graham
 

On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 04:43 PM, Oliver K6OLI wrote:
Have fun experimenting

The  badge's   , FM and  HF are  a little  simplistic ,  
 
Vara  FM  is  intolerant of  frequency  displacement ,  having   no  AFC facility 
this  is inherent  in a  FM system , tx and recovered Rx tone's  are  always
identical [ frequency] . hence  AFC was not  provided.
 
But, out of the  box,  , could also  be  conveyed  via   Am or 
perhaps  pilot  carrier SSB  or  AM- vestigial sideband ? , 
 
9600  , Requires a greater bandwith , as provided  for  9600 packet
hence the  need  to  use the  9600  option  of the  Tx/Rx , 
but is still  essentially FM , with  zero off set capability . 
 
 
Vara HF is provided with AFC and is able to detect off sets, but 
Can also  be  used over  FM links , if the  link is very poor  or 
Narrow  bandwidth , 
 
During testing ,  I found  with a  local satation on 6 meters . 
who , had high 'solar panel' wide band noise , switching  from  SSB
to FM  tx/rx mode  provided a higher  maximum  rate , 

Take a  look at the  V-Sat  for  chat , that  has some  novel 
netting  and  measuring  functions  ..  based on the  HF modem 

Not the  inteded deployements ,  but room  for  experimentation -)

73 -Graham
g0nbd 


Re: Need info on reliable refurbished computer source

Dave Corio
 

Andy and any interested,

Got the "new" PC yesterday. So far I'm very impressed! It was packed well, clean, and the box contained everything listed. The computer itself was exactly as specified from Amazon, and so far has been easy to get set up (basics!) and running. Only another day or two to get all the ham software installed & running!

73
Dave - K1DJE


Re: New digital mode PS-18 (HF pager) from DXsoft and Radial, or we invented APRS again :-)

Kristoff Bonne
 

Serge,


On 3/06/2020 19:31, Sergei Podstrigailo wrote:
KB> I can't speak for John, but I think the question was about a port of the
KB> complete stack (encoder and decoder) to linux single-board computer or a
KB> MCU or MCU/FPGA.

We are working on full "Hardware pager" with embedded transceiver, STM32 controller and e-Ink display too...
Versions for small Linux systems probably will be made also, but some later...
I hope that's will not be a 'just install and use'  box. :-(


These kind of devices almost killed the spirit of amateur-radio. Thankfully the maker/hacker-community came to save us.


73
kristoff - ON1ARF


Re: New digital mode PS-18 (HF pager) from DXsoft and Radial, or we invented APRS again :-)

Chiefsfan2
 

After I played with it, it's not to bad. I used the demo for droid and played the test files on Nvis.club and it works pretty slick. I think it will be a good challenge to go in the field with low power and see what it will do providing we can get some more operators using it.

On Jun 4, 2020, 12:49 -0500, Andrew OBrien <k3ukandy@...>, wrote:
I’m getting a feeling this will take more of an effort than most hams are willing to undertake .

Andy K3UK


On Jun 4, 2020, at 12:09 PM, Sergei Podstrigailo <amx2@...> wrote:

Hello Chiefsfan2,

Thursday, June 4, 2020, 9:49:41 PM, you wrote:

C> Ok thanks. Is it possible to do an allcall to several station at once?

As I wrote, destination ID is used only to select a station which can send acknowledge.

All station receive all messages.

If you send "CQ", good way is to send it to "0" ID.




--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@...

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com








Re: Need info on reliable refurbished computer source

Don Coker
 

I have bought two Dell OptiPlexes and one Dell Laptop, all renewed off of Amazon. Stuck with Dell because it is easy to get the drivers and other support info. Both OptiPlexes arrived and worked as represented. The Laptop would not boot, so got a return authorization that cost me nothing and a credit back in 10 days. Got another Laptop and it worked just fine.  Overall, I have been happy.

 

73

 

Don KM6TRZ

 

From: main@digitalradio.groups.io <main@digitalradio.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andrew O'Brien
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2020 9:41 AM
To: main@digitalradio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [digital-mode-radio] Need info on reliable refurbished computer source

 

I was looking at those “renewed “ desktop PC’s myself . I’ve been using my current desktop for several years but it my be time for an upgrade . I was turned off

many of the reviews I saw on Amazon so will follow this thread and see what information others have about this topic 

Andy K3uk 

 



On Jun 4, 2020, at 9:51 AM, Dave Corio via groups.io <k1dje@...> wrote:

Finally have to admit my AMD dual-core and 4G RAM are outdated. Refurbished is the only option available for me right now.

Anyone have first-hand reports of a reliable source? Been checking Amazon primarily, and some of their "renewed" units look good, but not something I've ever delved into. Reviews on the site are pretty well split, and I don't want to get into something that I'll regret.

If it helps, I'm looking for an Intel quad-core with 16G RAM with either integrated or dedicated graphics that will drive two monitors. I do not need all the peripherals such as monitors and keyboard.

Thanks for any assistance!
Dave - K1DJE (ex-KB3MOW)


Re: Need info on reliable refurbished computer source

VE3GTC, Graham <colonelkrypton@...>
 

have a look at Dell refurbished computers. These are computers that are only a few years old and back to DELL after being leased to some business or corporation:



good deals, good service in my experience.

cheers, Graham ve3gtc


 

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 4:41 PM Andrew O'Brien <andrewobrie@...> wrote:
I was looking at those “renewed “ desktop PC’s myself . I’ve been using my current desktop for several years but it my be time for an upgrade . I was turned off
many of the reviews I saw on Amazon so will follow this thread and see what information others have about this topic 

Andy K3uk 


On Jun 4, 2020, at 9:51 AM, Dave Corio via groups.io <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Finally have to admit my AMD dual-core and 4G RAM are outdated. Refurbished is the only option available for me right now.

Anyone have first-hand reports of a reliable source? Been checking Amazon primarily, and some of their "renewed" units look good, but not something I've ever delved into. Reviews on the site are pretty well split, and I don't want to get into something that I'll regret.

If it helps, I'm looking for an Intel quad-core with 16G RAM with either integrated or dedicated graphics that will drive two monitors. I do not need all the peripherals such as monitors and keyboard.

Thanks for any assistance!
Dave - K1DJE (ex-KB3MOW)


Re: Need info on reliable refurbished computer source

Sholto Fisher
 

Something like this would probably work Andy. I’ve bought from them in the past and had a good experience.

 

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=607570&CatId=6

 

Sholto

K7TMG

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Andrew O'Brien
Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 9:41 AM
To: main@digitalradio.groups.io
Subject: Re: [digital-mode-radio] Need info on reliable refurbished computer source

 

I was looking at those “renewed “ desktop PC’s myself . I’ve been using my current desktop for several years but it my be time for an upgrade . I was turned off

many of the reviews I saw on Amazon so will follow this thread and see what information others have about this topic 

Andy K3uk 

 



On Jun 4, 2020, at 9:51 AM, Dave Corio via groups.io <k1dje@...> wrote:

Finally have to admit my AMD dual-core and 4G RAM are outdated. Refurbished is the only option available for me right now.

Anyone have first-hand reports of a reliable source? Been checking Amazon primarily, and some of their "renewed" units look good, but not something I've ever delved into. Reviews on the site are pretty well split, and I don't want to get into something that I'll regret.

If it helps, I'm looking for an Intel quad-core with 16G RAM with either integrated or dedicated graphics that will drive two monitors. I do not need all the peripherals such as monitors and keyboard.

Thanks for any assistance!
Dave - K1DJE (ex-KB3MOW)

 


Re: New digital mode PS-18 (HF pager) from DXsoft and Radial, or we invented APRS again :-)

Andrew OBrien
 

I’m getting a feeling this will take more of an effort than most hams are willing to undertake .

Andy K3UK

On Jun 4, 2020, at 12:09 PM, Sergei Podstrigailo <amx2@dxsoft.com> wrote:

Hello Chiefsfan2,

Thursday, June 4, 2020, 9:49:41 PM, you wrote:

C> Ok thanks. Is it possible to do an allcall to several station at once?

As I wrote, destination ID is used only to select a station which can send acknowledge.

All station receive all messages.

If you send "CQ", good way is to send it to "0" ID.




--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@dxsoft.com

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com




Re: Need info on reliable refurbished computer source

Dave Corio
 

Andy, I'll give you first-hand info on Monday or Tuesday! XYL & I been doing business with Amazon for quite a few years and never had a problem. Looked closer, and all the reviews were at least 3 years old or more. Ended up ordering a refurb unit for $260 and should have it Monday.

Dell Optiplex 900
16G RAM
Intel quad core
3.1 GHz
1 Tb HDD
DVD drive
Wifi
Win 10 Pro (could be Home
10 USB ports

Maybe stupid of me, but I also got a 3-year warranty for an additional $35 in addtion to the 90-day Amazon warranty. Hate buying service contracts, but seemed like a good price for a piece of used equipment.

73
Dave - K1DJE


Re: Need info on reliable refurbished computer source

Ralph Mowery
 

I have had good luck buying them off ebay.  Looked at the feedback and found the higher rated ones.  Over the last 10 to 15 years I have bought 5 or 6 and only have 2 that have failed.  They both ran many years and were only turned off to move them around from place to place.  


On Thursday, June 4, 2020, 12:42:18 PM EDT, Andrew O'Brien <andrewobrie@...> wrote:


I was looking at those “renewed “ desktop PC’s myself . I’ve been using my current desktop for several years but it my be time for an upgrade . I was turned off
many of the reviews I saw on Amazon so will follow this thread and see what information others have about this topic 

Andy K3uk 


On Jun 4, 2020, at 9:51 AM, Dave Corio via groups.io <k1dje@...> wrote:

Finally have to admit my AMD dual-core and 4G RAM are outdated. Refurbished is the only option available for me right now.

Anyone have first-hand reports of a reliable source? Been checking Amazon primarily, and some of their "renewed" units look good, but not something I've ever delved into. Reviews on the site are pretty well split, and I don't want to get into something that I'll regret.

If it helps, I'm looking for an Intel quad-core with 16G RAM with either integrated or dedicated graphics that will drive two monitors. I do not need all the peripherals such as monitors and keyboard.

Thanks for any assistance!
Dave - K1DJE (ex-KB3MOW)
_.,_


Re: Need info on reliable refurbished computer source

Andrew O'Brien
 

I was looking at those “renewed “ desktop PC’s myself . I’ve been using my current desktop for several years but it my be time for an upgrade . I was turned off
many of the reviews I saw on Amazon so will follow this thread and see what information others have about this topic 

Andy K3uk 


On Jun 4, 2020, at 9:51 AM, Dave Corio via groups.io <k1dje@...> wrote:

Finally have to admit my AMD dual-core and 4G RAM are outdated. Refurbished is the only option available for me right now.

Anyone have first-hand reports of a reliable source? Been checking Amazon primarily, and some of their "renewed" units look good, but not something I've ever delved into. Reviews on the site are pretty well split, and I don't want to get into something that I'll regret.

If it helps, I'm looking for an Intel quad-core with 16G RAM with either integrated or dedicated graphics that will drive two monitors. I do not need all the peripherals such as monitors and keyboard.

Thanks for any assistance!
Dave - K1DJE (ex-KB3MOW)


Re: New digital mode PS-18 (HF pager) from DXsoft and Radial, or we invented APRS again :-)

Sergei Podstrigailo
 

Hello Chiefsfan2,

Thursday, June 4, 2020, 9:49:41 PM, you wrote:

C> Ok thanks. Is it possible to do an allcall to several station at once?

As I wrote, destination ID is used only to select a station which can send acknowledge.

All station receive all messages.

If you send "CQ", good way is to send it to "0" ID.




--
Best regards,
Sergei mailto:amx2@dxsoft.com

Windows HAM radio software at http://www.dxsoft.com

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