Date   

Re: VARA HF Modem Speeds

Rick Muething
 

Graham,

I think I missed the first part of the discussion.  Is this referring to the Winlink/ARSFI  Ionos Simulator project/simulator?

There is a pretty complete write-up of the effort and examples of simulation runs at:

https://winlink.org/content/ionos_simulator

Tom W. N5TW,  Tom Lafleur KA6IQA  and I were working on the effort most of last year during the development and verification of the simulator and testing  common popular protocols.

If interested I can provide more detail.

73,

Rick Muething, KN6KB Winlink Development Team.

On 1/21/2021 10:42 AM, Graham wrote:
Its unclear as to  why the  simulator results where  so  wrong  and now  so  right , applying to  just one mode, where as   other's  remain, apparently,  unaffected  ?

What was identified as  causing the  discrepancy  ?

73 -Graham
g0nbd


Re: VARA HF Modem Speeds

Graham
 

Yes , Quite agree  Andy ,

The  vara  modem  started  years  before it  broke the  surface , in many variations,  the  fully  odfm version was  and remains radical ,  the  mfsk  front end to the  HF version, signalled the  limitations to  psk  modulation .. perhaps echoing the  MT63 , progression to  Olivia in terms of  s/n  

In reality , 'we'  as in data  mode users  are  now  10 years  behind  the  times , Ros HF , introduced , 'efficient   use of  bandwidth'  whilst maintaining QSO integrity and equal channel  access  for  users at  minimal s/n levels . 

To day , as already commented ,  non  coexisting  transmission formats  are  spreading along the  dial  

Only  need  to  observe the  psk-map  11  meter  band , when there  is a  opening ,  to  observe , the  traffic level  
supported in a  single  voice  channel  , by non ham users , demonstrating the  validity of the  designe .. and the far sightedness of the  SS Trial group  , who  also  came under  fire , 

73-Graham
g0nbd


Re: VARA HF Modem Speeds

Andrew OBrien
 

and I will add ...  The pactor modes still hold up as very effective under various conditions but I think it is ironic that after the written and verbal "beating" that Jose received for his ROS mode software ,  Jose deserves huge credit and thanks for his VARA work.  The results mentioned in the article are truly outstanding! Both HF and FM VARA .  Wide VARA and Narrow VARA. The article appropriately references Rick's pioneering work with WINMOR and ARDOP.  I especially enjoyed the early WINMOR experiments on air.

Andy K3UK 


Re: VARA HF Modem Speeds

Andrew O'Brien
 

The article is very interesting
Andy K3UK

On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 10:42 AM Graham <g0nbd@...> wrote:
Its unclear as to  why the  simulator results where  so  wrong  and now  so  right , applying to  just one mode, where as   other's  remain, apparently,  unaffected  ?

What was identified as  causing the  discrepancy  ?

73 -Graham
g0nbd



--
Andy


Re: VARA HF Modem Speeds

Graham
 

Its unclear as to  why the  simulator results where  so  wrong  and now  so  right , applying to  just one mode, where as   other's  remain, apparently,  unaffected  ?

What was identified as  causing the  discrepancy  ?

73 -Graham
g0nbd


Re: VARA HF Modem Speeds

Rick Muething
 

Tony/All,

VARA is truly a very capable protocol and throughput on HF can exceed 20 K bytes/minute over some channels.   Tom Whiteside N5TW of the Winlink development team recently completed an extensive comparison of several HF and VHF/UHF ARQ protocols over a wide range of S:N and Multipath propagation using a new low-cost HF/VHF Ionospheric Simulator.  This kind of testing allows accurate testing with repeatable data which is often difficult or impossible to duplicate over the air. Those interested in seeing details on Tom Whiteside's N5TW simulation effort and protocol comparisons  should check out https://winlink.org/content/ionos_simulator

73,

Rick Muething, KN6KB

On 1/17/2021 5:45 PM, Tony wrote:
All:

I observed an unusually fast file transfer while using VARA on 40 meters today (see below). It's not uncommon to see speeds of 15,000 to 20,000 bytes/minute when the band is stable, but today's observation shows that faster speeds are possible under the right conditions.

I should mention that the 30K b/m speed was recorded while receiving a 30K image.

Tony -K2MO



*** Winlink Vara Connection to KC8YJJ @ 2021/01/17 20:09:59  USB Dial: 7101.000
*** Station Bearing: 268,  Range: 393 miles
RMS Trimode 1.3.36.0
K2MO has 120 minutes remaining with KC8YJJ
{SFI = 078 On 2021-01-17 20:00 UTC}
[WL2K-5.0-B2FWIHJM$]
;PQ: 44766187
CMS via KC8YJJ >
   ;FW: K2MO
   [RMS Express-1.5.34.0-B2FHM$]

   ;PR: 17655197
   ; KC8YJJ DE K2MO (FN30JV)
   FF
;PM: K2MO 36Y27O2YLIPH 30887 73guddx@gmail.com ---
FC EM 36Y27O2YLIPH 32990 30887 0
F> C5
   FS Y
*** Receiving 36Y27O2YLIPH
*** 36Y27O2YLIPH - 33005/30899 bytes received
*** Bytes: 31145,  Time: 01:03,  bytes/minute: 29618
   FF
FQ
*** --- End of session at 2021/01/17 20:11:49 ---
*** Messages sent: 0.  Total bytes sent: 0,  Time: 01:49, bytes/minute: 0
*** Messages Received: 1.  Total bytes received: 31145,  Total session time: 01:49,  bytes/minute: 17035
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: KC8YJJ @ 2021/01/17 20:11:56
*** Session: 1.9 min;  Avg Throughput: 15552 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 15552 Bytes/min





Re: VARA HF Modem Speeds

Andrew O'Brien
 

OK , will try again.  I have been using my Winlink address.

Andy 

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 9:22 PM Tony <73GUDDX@...> wrote:
Andy:

Had to edit my whitelist to include gmail addresses. 

Please try again when you get the chance.

Tony -K2MO



On 1/17/2021 6:36 PM, Andrew OBrien wrote:
By the way Tony, I have sent you a few emails via your Winlink  address lately and each time winlink says nop such address.

Andy K3UK 

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 5:45 PM Tony <73GUDDX@...> wrote:
All:

I observed an unusually fast file transfer while using VARA on 40 meters
today (see below). It's not uncommon to see speeds of 15,000 to 20,000
bytes/minute when the band is stable, but today's observation shows that
faster speeds are possible under the right conditions.

I should mention that the 30K b/m speed was recorded while receiving a
30K image.

Tony -K2MO



*** Winlink Vara Connection to KC8YJJ @ 2021/01/17 20:09:59  USB Dial:
7101.000
*** Station Bearing: 268,  Range: 393 miles
RMS Trimode 1.3.36.0
K2MO has 120 minutes remaining with KC8YJJ
{SFI = 078 On 2021-01-17 20:00 UTC}
[WL2K-5.0-B2FWIHJM$]
;PQ: 44766187
CMS via KC8YJJ >
    ;FW: K2MO
    [RMS Express-1.5.34.0-B2FHM$]

    ;PR: 17655197
    ; KC8YJJ DE K2MO (FN30JV)
    FF
;PM: K2MO 36Y27O2YLIPH 30887 73guddx@... ---
FC EM 36Y27O2YLIPH 32990 30887 0
F> C5
    FS Y
*** Receiving 36Y27O2YLIPH
*** 36Y27O2YLIPH - 33005/30899 bytes received
*** Bytes: 31145,  Time: 01:03,  bytes/minute: 29618
    FF
FQ
*** --- End of session at 2021/01/17 20:11:49 ---
*** Messages sent: 0.  Total bytes sent: 0,  Time: 01:49, bytes/minute: 0
*** Messages Received: 1.  Total bytes received: 31145,  Total session
time: 01:49,  bytes/minute: 17035
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: KC8YJJ @ 2021/01/17 20:11:56
*** Session: 1.9 min;  Avg Throughput: 15552 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak
Throughput: 15552 Bytes/min









--
Andy


Re: VARA HF Modem Speeds

Tony
 

Andy:

Had to edit my whitelist to include gmail addresses. 

Please try again when you get the chance.

Tony -K2MO



On 1/17/2021 6:36 PM, Andrew OBrien wrote:
By the way Tony, I have sent you a few emails via your Winlink  address lately and each time winlink says nop such address.

Andy K3UK 

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 5:45 PM Tony <73GUDDX@...> wrote:
All:

I observed an unusually fast file transfer while using VARA on 40 meters
today (see below). It's not uncommon to see speeds of 15,000 to 20,000
bytes/minute when the band is stable, but today's observation shows that
faster speeds are possible under the right conditions.

I should mention that the 30K b/m speed was recorded while receiving a
30K image.

Tony -K2MO



*** Winlink Vara Connection to KC8YJJ @ 2021/01/17 20:09:59  USB Dial:
7101.000
*** Station Bearing: 268,  Range: 393 miles
RMS Trimode 1.3.36.0
K2MO has 120 minutes remaining with KC8YJJ
{SFI = 078 On 2021-01-17 20:00 UTC}
[WL2K-5.0-B2FWIHJM$]
;PQ: 44766187
CMS via KC8YJJ >
    ;FW: K2MO
    [RMS Express-1.5.34.0-B2FHM$]

    ;PR: 17655197
    ; KC8YJJ DE K2MO (FN30JV)
    FF
;PM: K2MO 36Y27O2YLIPH 30887 73guddx@... ---
FC EM 36Y27O2YLIPH 32990 30887 0
F> C5
    FS Y
*** Receiving 36Y27O2YLIPH
*** 36Y27O2YLIPH - 33005/30899 bytes received
*** Bytes: 31145,  Time: 01:03,  bytes/minute: 29618
    FF
FQ
*** --- End of session at 2021/01/17 20:11:49 ---
*** Messages sent: 0.  Total bytes sent: 0,  Time: 01:49, bytes/minute: 0
*** Messages Received: 1.  Total bytes received: 31145,  Total session
time: 01:49,  bytes/minute: 17035
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: KC8YJJ @ 2021/01/17 20:11:56
*** Session: 1.9 min;  Avg Throughput: 15552 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak
Throughput: 15552 Bytes/min








Re: VARA HF Modem Speeds

Andrew OBrien
 

By the way Tony, I have sent you a few emails via your Winlink  address lately and each time winlink says nop such address.

Andy K3UK 

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 5:45 PM Tony <73GUDDX@...> wrote:
All:

I observed an unusually fast file transfer while using VARA on 40 meters
today (see below). It's not uncommon to see speeds of 15,000 to 20,000
bytes/minute when the band is stable, but today's observation shows that
faster speeds are possible under the right conditions.

I should mention that the 30K b/m speed was recorded while receiving a
30K image.

Tony -K2MO



*** Winlink Vara Connection to KC8YJJ @ 2021/01/17 20:09:59  USB Dial:
7101.000
*** Station Bearing: 268,  Range: 393 miles
RMS Trimode 1.3.36.0
K2MO has 120 minutes remaining with KC8YJJ
{SFI = 078 On 2021-01-17 20:00 UTC}
[WL2K-5.0-B2FWIHJM$]
;PQ: 44766187
CMS via KC8YJJ >
    ;FW: K2MO
    [RMS Express-1.5.34.0-B2FHM$]

    ;PR: 17655197
    ; KC8YJJ DE K2MO (FN30JV)
    FF
;PM: K2MO 36Y27O2YLIPH 30887 73guddx@... ---
FC EM 36Y27O2YLIPH 32990 30887 0
F> C5
    FS Y
*** Receiving 36Y27O2YLIPH
*** 36Y27O2YLIPH - 33005/30899 bytes received
*** Bytes: 31145,  Time: 01:03,  bytes/minute: 29618
    FF
FQ
*** --- End of session at 2021/01/17 20:11:49 ---
*** Messages sent: 0.  Total bytes sent: 0,  Time: 01:49, bytes/minute: 0
*** Messages Received: 1.  Total bytes received: 31145,  Total session
time: 01:49,  bytes/minute: 17035
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: KC8YJJ @ 2021/01/17 20:11:56
*** Session: 1.9 min;  Avg Throughput: 15552 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak
Throughput: 15552 Bytes/min







VARA HF Modem Speeds

Tony
 

All:

I observed an unusually fast file transfer while using VARA on 40 meters today (see below). It's not uncommon to see speeds of 15,000 to 20,000 bytes/minute when the band is stable, but today's observation shows that faster speeds are possible under the right conditions.

I should mention that the 30K b/m speed was recorded while receiving a 30K image.

Tony -K2MO



*** Winlink Vara Connection to KC8YJJ @ 2021/01/17 20:09:59  USB Dial: 7101.000
*** Station Bearing: 268,  Range: 393 miles
RMS Trimode 1.3.36.0
K2MO has 120 minutes remaining with KC8YJJ
{SFI = 078 On 2021-01-17 20:00 UTC}
[WL2K-5.0-B2FWIHJM$]
;PQ: 44766187
CMS via KC8YJJ >
   ;FW: K2MO
   [RMS Express-1.5.34.0-B2FHM$]

   ;PR: 17655197
   ; KC8YJJ DE K2MO (FN30JV)
   FF
;PM: K2MO 36Y27O2YLIPH 30887 73guddx@gmail.com ---
FC EM 36Y27O2YLIPH 32990 30887 0
F> C5
   FS Y
*** Receiving 36Y27O2YLIPH
*** 36Y27O2YLIPH - 33005/30899 bytes received
*** Bytes: 31145,  Time: 01:03,  bytes/minute: 29618
   FF
FQ
*** --- End of session at 2021/01/17 20:11:49 ---
*** Messages sent: 0.  Total bytes sent: 0,  Time: 01:49, bytes/minute: 0
*** Messages Received: 1.  Total bytes received: 31145,  Total session time: 01:49,  bytes/minute: 17035
*** Disconnected from Winlink RMS: KC8YJJ @ 2021/01/17 20:11:56
*** Session: 1.9 min;  Avg Throughput: 15552 Bytes/min;   1 Min Peak Throughput: 15552 Bytes/min


new SW Radiogram program

 

Hello to all the digital folks out there.
 
A new program for the Shortwave Radiogram broadcasts has now been posted on the SW Radiogram website. 
 
If you're new to decoding digital, this is a pretty nice way to get your feet wet. You can use your desktop or laptop, or you can use an Android device such as a smartphone or tablet. You can find links to the SW Radiogram website, software for decoding, and wiki articles with extensive details and help at: http://www.udxf.nl/events.html.  
 
If you'd like to see a list of web receivers (which are often reported as being used), receiver, transceiver and SDR applications and more,  take a look at the SW Radiogram gateway at https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Shortwave_Radiogram_Gateway
 
Help is also available on Facebook and Twitter. The SW Radiogram website has the links. 
 
Radio Northern Europe International has announced its new schedule for program 13.  
See https://rnei.org/2021/01/10/radio-northern-europe-international-show-13-announcement/ for more information. You can read about HamDRM (also known
as WinDRM) at https://www.sigidwiki.com/wiki/WinDRM
 
A tip for decoding PSK500 per Roger on the World of Radio reflector...
Sending PSK as AM modulation is less of a problem, but demodulation in AM should be avoided! I recommend separate demodulation in USB and LSB, 
ideally from an IQ recording. In the case of the AM sum signal (left+right), there is often a destructive phase overlap and decoding problems.
 
Here's hoping for good propagation 


new SW Radiogram program

 

Hello to all the digital folks out there.
 
A new program for the Shortwave Radiogram broadcasts has now been posted on the SW Radiogram website. Watch out for a mystery mode under some music at the end of the program. 
 
If you're new to decoding digital, this is a pretty nice way to get your feet wet. You can use your desktop or laptop, or you can use an Android device such as a smartphone or tablet. You can find links to the SW Radiogram website, software for decoding, and wiki articles with extensive details and help at: http://www.udxf.nl/events.html.  
 
If you'd like to see a list of web receivers (which are often reported as being used), receiver, transceiver and SDR applications and more, 
take a look at the SW Radiogram gateway at https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Shortwave_Radiogram_Gateway
 
Help is also available on Facebook and Twitter. The SW Radiogram website has the links. 
 
Radio Northern Europe International also uses digital modes during its broadcasts. See https://rnei.org/ for more information.
   
Here's hoping for good propagation 


Re: European PSK on 40m ? PSK that dead ?

Graham
 

Andy, 

Setting just 'psk' in the map , produces a large number of qso'a 
Spread over the hf bands .. 

73 Graham
G0nbd


20M activity around 14070 today

Andrew OBrien
 

       
WT9S 20m OLIVIA 1911 miles 17:26:06
NR4A 20m OLIVIA 980 miles 17:04:53
N6CRR 20m PSK 2147 miles 17:57:31
W3BUG 20m PSK 240 miles 14:52:10
W4PKU 20m PSK 281 miles 14:40:26
ON3ANY 20m PSK 3773 miles 14:30:58
KB2DJJ 20m PSK 288 miles 14:22:09
N3OWM 20m PSK 1083 miles 20:36:02
KC3FL 20m PSK 949 miles 20:25:31
KD0UN 20m PSK 717 miles 20:24:05
WA1QZK 20m PSK 424 miles 20:24:03
W4VON 20m PSK 540 miles 20:22:11
KM4CQG 20m PSK 1049 miles 20:09:50
W7JIF 20m PSK 1880 miles 19:55:49
W4IOS 20m PSK 391 miles 19:40:48
NH7WB 20m PSK 1320 miles 19:40:09
KM4UDX 20m THOR 265 miles 15:28:52


Re: European PSK on 40m ? PSK that dead ?

Andrew OBrien
 

I left my radio on 7041 last night but had the Multipsk software hunting for any RS-ID over a couple of kHz range.  I picked up some Thor traffic from the USA around 1300 UTC on 
Andy K3UK 


Re: European PSK on 40m ? PSK that dead ?

M0PWX
 

for me, i see 7.042 as RTTY only, and 14.070 as mainly PSK31

the other issue i see is certainly on 7.042 i regularly see and hear  SSB voice  QSO's taking place

peter

2E0PWX

On Tue, 05/01/2021 14:41, Andrew OBrien wrote:
I spent a day monitoring 40M and 20m.  PSK31 on 14070 is still moderately active.  Typically 4-5 QSO at any given time.  Still, a lot less than the days of 20-30 QSOs at the same time. I worked Europe this morning with my QRP rig.
40M is pretty barren.  I heard no stations at all around 7041 but 2-3 were reported on PSKreporter, from Europe. In general, however, the 7040 area was totally quiet last night, no PSK heard here, no CW , no FT4.
Andy K3UK

___________________________________________
This email has been scanned by iomartcloud.
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Re: European PSK on 40m ? PSK that dead ?

Andrew OBrien
 

I spent a day monitoring 40M and 20m.  PSK31 on 14070 is still moderately active.  Typically 4-5 QSO at any given time.  Still, a lot less than the days of 20-30 QSOs at the same time. I worked Europe this morning with my QRP rig. 
40M is pretty barren.  I heard no stations at all around 7041 but 2-3 were reported on PSKreporter, from Europe. In general, however, the 7040 area was totally quiet last night, no PSK heard here, no CW , no FT4. 
Andy K3UK


Re: New VARA HF released 4-3-0 #VARA

Graham
 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 05:16 PM, Siegfried Jackstien wrote:
nobody would moan about using 2.9kc ...
Hi Sigi ,  The  channel  could be  2.9 k , the VTAC  modem is 2.795  KHz  
but  probably would not  work, due to the  circuit delays 

VSAT is based on the 2KHz b/w  HF modem 
and supports the  extended  delay and provides
auto  capture and net ... 

May be when the  Moon  repeater is  installed , 
the 4 seconds will  also be catered for -)

73-Graham 


Re: European PSK on 40m ? PSK that dead ?

Tom DF5JL
 

Andi,

PSK31 is as good as dead in Europe. It is true.

73 Tom DF5JL
DARC HF Manager




Am 04. Jan.. 2021 um 03:34 schrieb Andrew OBrien:

I have not heard any PSK from Europe on 40m here in the USA for a long time . So I looked via PSKreporter and found no reported signals for the two hour period that I specified . Then I checked DX Watch specifying PSK31 as the mode . Nothing for several days , world wide ! PSK31 can’t be that dead , people not reporting it to spot sources anymore?

Andy K3UK


European PSK on 40m ? PSK that dead ?

Andrew OBrien
 

I have not heard any PSK from Europe on 40m here in the USA for a long time . So I looked via PSKreporter and found no reported signals for the two hour period that I specified . Then I checked DX Watch specifying PSK31 as the mode . Nothing for several days , world wide ! PSK31 can’t be that dead , people not reporting it to spot sources anymore?

Andy K3UK

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