Date   

Re: Monitoring VARA

M5AKA
 

Graham, the latest version of § 97.119 Station identification is at


73 Trevor M5AKA


On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 16:26, Graham <g0nbd@...> wrote:


Andy / Sholto, 

Is it possible  for  some  one to  quote the  actual  wording  part97 requirement ?
is this the  same  for  all  bands and or  sub-bands  etc ?

Need  the ID be in the  same  mode that  is  being  used ,  or  part of therein ?

Tnx-Graham.





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Re: Monitoring VARA

M5AKA
 

I feel it unlikely FCC would take a dim view of someone fully complying with the Part 97 ID requirement.

In your earlier post you can the impression CW IDs were "legal" requirements, they are not.

But if someone really wants to add an extra ID in CW to all their digital transmissions then they can, even though it in unnecessary.

73 Trevor M5AKA



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On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 15:55, Sholto Fisher <sholto.fisher@...> wrote:


Hi Trevor,

I'm aware that IDs can be done in the mode itself but if there's no way of monitoring the ID I'm sure the FCC would take a dim view of it.
After all what's the point of an ID if there is no ready method to observe it? Shouldn't be a problem though if there's going to be a CW ID in the software.

Going back to Andy's point, during long Pactor message transfers (like a WX fax) does the Winlink software ID every 10 minutes for both the RMS and client? I always assumed it did but now I'm not sure.

I'm fairly sure it does in WinMOR.

73

Sholto
K7TMG



Re: Monitoring VARA

Walter Underwood
 

No, it is impossible. (Just kidding.)

First hit for “part 97 identification”: https://www.w5yi.org/page.php?id=124

Also, there is an implication that the transmission should be decodable. Right now, people monitoring VARA are not able to decode it.

97.309 (4)(b): “RTTY and data emissions using unspecified digital codes must not be transmitted for the purpose of obscuring the meaning of any communication.


wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

On Mar 6, 2018, at 8:25 AM, Graham <g0nbd@...> wrote:

Andy / Sholto, 

Is it possible  for  some  one to  quote the  actual  wording  part97 requirement ?
is this the  same  for  all  bands and or  sub-bands  etc ?

Need  the ID be in the  same  mode that  is  being  used ,  or  part of therein ?

Tnx-Graham.




Re: Monitoring VARA

Graham
 

Andy / Sholto, 

Is it possible  for  some  one to  quote the  actual  wording  part97 requirement ?
is this the  same  for  all  bands and or  sub-bands  etc ?

Need  the ID be in the  same  mode that  is  being  used ,  or  part of therein ?

Tnx-Graham.



Re: Monitoring VARA

Sholto Fisher
 

Hi Trevor,

I'm aware that IDs can be done in the mode itself but if there's no way of monitoring the ID I'm sure the FCC would take a dim view of it.
After all what's the point of an ID if there is no ready method to observe it? Shouldn't be a problem though if there's going to be a CW ID in the software.

Going back to Andy's point, during long Pactor message transfers (like a WX fax) does the Winlink software ID every 10 minutes for both the RMS and client? I always assumed it did but now I'm not sure.

I'm fairly sure it does in WinMOR.

73

Sholto
K7TMG


Re: Monitoring VARA

M5AKA
 

While in the USA Part 97 mandates IDing at 10 minute intervals, (ID can be in the mode you are transmitting e.g. VARA), this restriction doesn't apply to other countries. A call sign embedded in data packets should meet the US ID requirement.

In the UK the ID time interval is now left to the operators discretion, for example when experimenting with very low bit rate modes it may well be impractical to ID more frequently that once every 30 minutes.

73 Trevor M5AKA


On Tuesday, 6 March 2018, 7:55, John Wiseman <john.wiseman@...> wrote:


I'm testing a version of Vara that Includes CWID, though I don't think that is in the currently released version.

73, John


On 5 Mar 2018 22:43, Sholto Fisher <sholto.fisher@...> wrote:
I can see this being an issue for part 97 compliance. There has to be a way for the stations concerned to transmit an ID which can be monitored/understood by others. WinMOR has this self identification and I think for VARA to be legal it will have to do the same.




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Re: Monitoring VARA

John G8BPQ
 

I'm testing a version of Vara that Includes CWID, though I don't think that is in the currently released version.

73, John


On 5 Mar 2018 22:43, Sholto Fisher <sholto.fisher@...> wrote:
I can see this being an issue for part 97 compliance. There has to be a way for the stations concerned to transmit an ID which can be monitored/understood by others. WinMOR has this self identification and I think for VARA to be legal it will have to do the same.


No sign of VARA gateways

Andrew OBrien
 

I have tried to hit VARA gateways on 40M and 20M for the past few days.  Interesting that when KC9SGV was running his on 40M I could hit it any time of the day, mostly S9.  Others on same band and within a couple hundred miles of him have been unsuccessful each attempt I made, no matter what time of day. 
Andy K3UK


Re: Monitoring VARA

Andrew O'Brien
 

I wondered about that too, but there again there is no ID with several other modes when transmitting long files... just the beginning and end of a transmission. 
Andy K3UK

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Sholto Fisher <sholto.fisher@...> wrote:
I can see this being an issue for part 97 compliance. There has to be a way for the stations concerned to transmit an ID which can be monitored/understood by others. WinMOR has this self identification and I think for VARA to be legal it will have to do the same.




--
Andy


Re: Monitoring VARA

Sholto Fisher
 

I can see this being an issue for part 97 compliance. There has to be a way for the stations concerned to transmit an ID which can be monitored/understood by others. WinMOR has this self identification and I think for VARA to be legal it will have to do the same.


Re: Monitoring VARA

John G8BPQ
 

No, you can't monitor, but if VARA receives a connect request for a call other than yours it will report it, I think in the CANCELPENDING message. BPQ will log this to its VARA driver window.

73,
John

On 05/03/2018 19:23, Sholto Fisher wrote:
Does anybody know if it's possible to monitor VARA just with the application? I've tried tuning in as best I can but I don't get any info on the screen.

Someone is doing VARA testing on top of the packet network at 14105 and I'd like to be able to inform them (politely) they are disrupting on going qsos.

73

Sholto
K7TMG


Monitoring VARA

Sholto Fisher
 

Does anybody know if it's possible to monitor VARA just with the application? I've tried tuning in as best I can but I don't get any info on the screen.

Someone is doing VARA testing on top of the packet network at 14105 and I'd like to be able to inform them (politely) they are disrupting on going qsos.

73

Sholto
K7TMG


Video Address Chnage: Vara Large File Transfer Video via NVIS

Tony
 

All:

The link to the Vara Large File Tansfer Video has changed. I just realized that I uploaded the draft instead of the finished product. Please see details below.

New video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXnlNa9BrEo

Tony -K2MO

____________________

All:

Just posted a Youtube video of Vara downloading 3 fairly large image
files via Winlink. There was considerable multi-path between myself and
KB3PCY which is typical for nighttime NVIS on 80 meters. Managed to
maintain good s/n throughout the session.

The video shows how Vara switches to it's lowest data rate (44 bps)
between downloads; the low-speed handshake appears to be by design and
doesn't seem to have anything to do with changing band conditions.

What's interesting is how well Vara maintained such good throughput
despite throttling down between downloads.

I plan on running the same test with 3 small files to see how the mode
behaves.

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B97P6oTz0MI

Tony -K2MO


Re: Vara Large File Transfer Video via NVIS

Tony
 

Graham:

> Yes, that is a  low data  rate , ''robust exchange'' , to ensure the 'link management' remains intact during hand over

I thought so - thanks for the clarification.

> Q can  you run the  same  test  on 5 MHz ?

I'd be happy to if I can get someone to participate.

Thanks again.

Tony -K2MO





the low-speed handshake appears to be by design and doesn't seem to have anything to do with changing band conditions.
Tony ,  

Yes, that is a  low data  rate , ''robust exchange'' , to ensure the 'link management' remains  intact  during hand over
like  a ''pit stop''  methodical ..then back to the transfer .

Good result, all the  same !

Q can  you run the  same  test  on 5 MHz ? 

73-Graham.


Re: Vara Large File Transfer Video via NVIS

Tony
 

On 3/4/2018 6:55 AM, la7um via Groups.Io wrote:
Interesting, and nice setup as always Tony :-)
My pleasure Finn.

Tony -K2MO


Re: Vara Large File Transfer Video via NVIS

Graham
 

On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 04:58 pm, Anthony Bombardiere wrote:
the low-speed handshake appears to be by design and doesn't seem to have anything to do with changing band conditions.
Tony ,  

Yes, that is a  low data  rate , ''robust exchange'' , to ensure the 'link management' remains  intact  during hand over
like  a ''pit stop''  methodical ..then back to the transfer .

Good result, all the  same !

Q can  you run the  same  test  on 5 MHz ? 

73-Graham.


Re: Vara Large File Transfer Video via NVIS

la7um
 

Interesting,
and nice setup as always Tony :-)

73 de LA7UM Finn


Vara Large File Transfer Video via NVIS

Tony
 

All:

Just posted a Youtube video of Vara downloading 3 fairly large image files via Winlink. There was considerable multi-path between myself and KB3PCY which is typical for nighttime NVIS on 80 meters. Managed to maintain good s/n throughout the session.

The video shows how Vara switches to it's lowest data rate (44 bps) between downloads; the low-speed handshake appears to be by design and doesn't seem to have anything to do with changing band conditions.

What's interesting is how well Vara maintained such good throughput despite throttling down between downloads.

I plan on running the same test with 3 small files to see how the mode behaves.

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B97P6oTz0MI

Tony -K2MO


Re: New VARA OFDM adaptive HF modem

Graham
 

The comparison with pactor, was round source code integrity , not so 
much the porting to a different operating system , however the 
Show go's on ....)
73,G


Re: New VARA OFDM adaptive HF modem

K6ETA
 

Hi Graham,

That's not what Jose told me directly on the VARA discussion list, but it's good news if he has changed his mind! If in the future VARA becomes available in Linux, stations like mine will embrace it wholeheartedly. 

Until then, ARDOP is already up and running and needs only support in RMS Trimode and Winlink Express for the user base to come. Sysops with Windows machines can support VARA now, so at least RMS stations with shore power or generator back up can use it too. It's great to have choices and options in an emergency, so it's all good.

Best,
Steve K6ETA

On Mar 3, 2018, at 9:34 AM, Graham <g0nbd@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Steve

That's not exactly the  case,  the  offer  was made to  port  the  ROS data  mode  and OPERA  to  linux , Both of those offer extream  low power communications. 

All the  DSP design and coding  is the  sole result of Jose work,  no other people are involved  in the  process, yes, testing  and suggestions, but  the  actual  design,  no.

At the  moment the  VARA system  remains under  development and has been  over the  last two  years ,  what is being deployed now, on a wider basis , is  providing test data , unobtainable in the  past.

Its Jose intention, once the  system is  embodied  within the  Tri-mode  control software and the  issue is  stable,  the work  on  the  porting  to Linux  will  be  undertaken.

As there is  now to be a  VHF version of VARA , the  design for  which is  underway , the  time  scales may be  longer than  first  anticipated , but for the  effort of a  single  person, the  level of commitment is  quite outstanding ..

73-Graham 
G0NBD

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